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UKPC ROM VALLEY RETAIL PARK VEHICLE DRIVER LEFT SITE
GalileoHunter
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 12:43
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Hi There,

parking charge stuck to the keepers car at the start of December 2017 for "Vehicle Owner/Driver Left site" Issued by UKPC
The registered keeper had not parked the car in this case.

Fortunately they've made a hash of it and mistook one of the numbers in the cars number plate for a letter, which is on the parking charge and all online photo evidence is under the wrong number plate on their website, which they haven't corrected as of the time of this post.

The driver then waited for a notice to keeper to be sent to the registered keeper.

They've just sent through today a Notice to keeper which the driver has been informed of and this is the only place the correct number plate has been stated.

Looked through a lot of discussions of which i have an idea of how i should approach but just didn't want to get the appeal wrong with this specific situation.

Hesitant to post dates just for traceability so let me know if you need them.

Thanks so much for any replies,
Hunter

This post has been edited by GalileoHunter: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 13:24
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post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 12:43
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kommando
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 12:49
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Edit your post so as not to infer drivers identity, refer only to 'the driver' and the 'keeper'.
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cabbyman
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 13:54
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Is there a difference between the details on the windscreen sticker and the NtK?


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GalileoHunter
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 14:03
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 13:54) *
Is there a difference between the details on the windscreen sticker and the NtK?


Yes, the sticker has the wrong numberplate the NTK has the correct numberplate
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cabbyman
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 14:18
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PoFA 2012 sched 4:

8(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.
(2)The notice must—
(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;
(b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;
©state that a notice to driver relating to the specified period of parking has been given and repeat the information in that notice as required by paragraph 7(2)(b), © and (f);


They don't match, so there is one point of appeal.

This post has been edited by cabbyman: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 14:19


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GalileoHunter
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 14:26
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 14:18) *
PoFA 2012 sched 4:

8(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.
(2)The notice must—
(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;
(b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;
©state that a notice to driver relating to the specified period of parking has been given and repeat the information in that notice as required by paragraph 7(2)(b), © and (f);


They don't match, so there is one point of appeal.


I was hoping that was the case thanks for bringing the full wording to my attention,

Can i appeal on behalf of the registered Keeper?

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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 14:33
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WHy on earth would someone OTHER THAN the keeper appeal?
It risks giving away the identity of the driver...
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GalileoHunter
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 14:44
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 14:33) *
WHy on earth would someone OTHER THAN the keeper appeal?
It risks giving away the identity of the driver...


what i meant was that if the registered keeper isn't available to deal with the proceedings can a relative/3rd party begin the appeal on their behalf
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kommando
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 14:50
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But the appeal must be from the Keeper even if assisted by someone else.
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GalileoHunter
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 15:19
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QUOTE (kommando @ Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 14:50) *
But the appeal must be from the Keeper even if assisted by someone else.


Ok will bear that in mind, thanks
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ostell
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 15:29
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Just in case check that the NTK conforms to the requirements of POFA paragraph 8. Note that 8 (2) says "Must". Add in any otherr misses into the appeal.

This post has been edited by ostell: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 15:29
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cabbyman
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 15:30
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Post your draft on here for checking before you send it. By the way, first class post with certificate of posting from the post office. NEVER signed for; they can refuse to sign for it.


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GalileoHunter
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 15:19
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Right so, going to start the letter with the registered keeper today as a third party individual.

Seen a few places where it says that appealing is not recommended so i assume that sending them a letter is not considered as an official appeal?

What i want to do is point out that the PCN and the NTK number plates don't match and that in reference to the PoFA 2012 sched 4: 8b
state that a notice to driver relating to the specified period of parking has been given and repeat the information in that notice as required by paragraph 7(2)(b), and (f); they have failed to meet the stipulation of the schedule.
Correct?

Is it worth including a section about charging for communications? hoping that it stops the paper war as the error of the number plate is with them.

ps. How do they actually hope to enforce "Vehicle Owner/Driver Left site" with just pictures of a car? i can't understand how they believe they are able to prove that the driver left the site?

Thanks for everyones help so far



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Dave65
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 15:25
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I would presume that the individual who stuck the notice on the car observed the person leave the car park.
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ostell
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 15:33
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So if it gets to court you ask that the warden is there to identify the person leaving. How did he know the person was the driver or owner?
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ManxRed
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 15:55
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And why did he/she not pre-warn the person that they were about to breach a contract?


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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 16:04
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The "contract" cannot be with the owner, unless they were the driver. It is only the driver that can accept any supposed contract, as it is THEIR action to park the car and noone elses.
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cabbyman
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 18:05
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 15:30) *
Post your draft on here for checking before you send it. By the way, first class post with certificate of posting from the post office. NEVER signed for; they can refuse to sign for it.


POST your ACTUAL draft on here for checking. It's much easier to correct. In post #13 you seem to be wandering around a bit. It's more difficult for us to advise about concepts as opposed to actuals.


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Churchmouse
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 18:25
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 14:18) *
PoFA 2012 sched 4:

8(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.
(2)The notice must—
(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;
(b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;
©state that a notice to driver relating to the specified period of parking has been given and repeat the information in that notice as required by paragraph 7(2)(b), © and (f);


They don't match, so there is one point of appeal.

The purpose of that provision is almost certainly not to create a technical barrier to the operation of Schedule 4 in the case of a minor error in the paperwork, so to expect a judge to read it that way would be foolish. Especially when the inconsistency was created by the PPC's correction of an earlier error.

But "left site" PCNs are very difficult for them anyway.

No, don't include any nonsense about "charging for communications". Totally unenforceable.

--Churchmouse
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cabbyman
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 18:37
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 14:18) *
They don't match, so there is one point of appeal.



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