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PayMyPCN Appeal Rejected
MHU
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 13:10
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Hi

I want to know what my next steps on this are

I go to the Blackburn with Dawen Council Gym everyday, but the parking is shared with the college and can only be used after 4.30PM by Gym Members.

I parked my vehicle on a tarmacked area which had no bays, or road markings or sign posts near that area that says you cannot park here and that you must be parked in a bay. I was given a Parking Charge Notice for this and i could pay the £60 (£100 after 14days) via www.paymypcn.net

I appealed on the grounds that i parked after 4.30pm, there are no road markings (red or yellow lines or hatched areas) and there is no sign there either.

The Appeal was rejected but does not say why. If i login to paymypcn it just says Appeal Rejected - Pending, and i have had no further contact.

Do i just ignore now? Or go to the IAS as that is the next steps on the parking charge notice if i disagree with the outcome?

secondly .. just yesterday, i was parked in a bay, shortly after 4.30pm, and i have been given another ticket at 4.56pm saying no valid permit displayed ... Funnily enough though the ticket is printed at 4.56 but the paper sheet the ticket has been put in says 4.20pm!

What would you suggest on that one?

Thanks
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post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 13:10
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MHU
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 15:57
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QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 15:42) *
Ignore, see what happens next

As this is a council Gym could the land there actually belong to the council? It's worth a check with your council.



I asked the Gym Manager, who said the car park is monitored privately but nothing about the land being council or not, I will try and find out.
I think it could be private, as the car park is the college's car park
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ostell
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 16:19
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But it could still belong to the council and as such different rules may apply. As well as asking generally about the area ask if there is a PPO (Parking Places Order) in existence on the land.
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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 18:00
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QUOTE
I am being advised above to just ignore it, i am just worried about it .. do i just ignore or send a letter or email saying i am not paying for these reasons, only contact me if you want to see me in court


Ignore, or write just as the BMPA told you. No need to be worried, we've all ignored stupid debt threatograms from a PPC in our time.
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MHU
post Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 10:14
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 18:00) *
QUOTE
I am being advised above to just ignore it, i am just worried about it .. do i just ignore or send a letter or email saying i am not paying for these reasons, only contact me if you want to see me in court


Ignore, or write just as the BMPA told you. No need to be worried, we've all ignored stupid debt threatograms from a PPC in our time.


who is BMPA? sorry

so just had an email from them about my appeal, which i logged before finding this forum

Thank you for your appeal against the above Parking Charge Notice ('PCN') which has been carefully considered, however,
on this occasion,the appeal has been rejected for the reason(s) detailed below.
Your vehicle was observed as not parked in a marked parking bay and you have therefore breached the displayed terms and
conditions of parking, notice of which is served by way of large contractual warning signs which are displayed at prominent
places throughout this private car park.
Please note that you can visit our website; www.paymypcn.net whereby you can review photographs of this parking event. You
will note from these images that your vehicle was not parked in a marked parking space.
You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure and you now have two options:
* You can pay the total amount due of £60.00 within 14 days (see reverse of letter for payment options).
* You can appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS) if you believe this decision is incorrect
In order to appeal the IAS will need your PCN number, vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued.
The IAS (www.theIAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have
complied with our internal appeals procedure, you may use and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service
providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of this rejection.



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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 10:58
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Did you even try google?....

Youre on "ignore" now.
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MHU
post Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 11:22
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 10:58) *
Did you even try google?....

Youre on "ignore" now.



Yes, i did after sending that ha! found some good information on there too smile.gif

I guess i play the waiting game now, i am assuming bailiffs can not turn upto my door?
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 8 Dec 2017 - 12:41
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Hell to the no
Bailiffs can only happen when you have a CCJ and yo dont pay it. That means court
Debt collectors can only send lettters with a waste of red ink on.
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MHU
post Mon, 11 Dec 2017 - 09:22
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I got this back from BMPA

Hi

Thanks for the mail. It is important to have those pics of the signs and the car park to show any court (if it goes that far) that you could not have entered into a contract with PCN (NW)

You should write back to PCN (NW) and tell them you disagree with their claims as it is apparent to any reasonable person, there is no basis for it. Every time they or any "debt collector" writes send the same letter back and get proof you have challenged PCN (NW). Whether you go as far as inviting them to take you to court, is your choice as if they did, you'd have to deal with it.

Regards
BMPA Support:


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hcandersen
post Mon, 11 Dec 2017 - 10:28
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You go to the gym every day.

You have therefore had time to investigate their claim regarding the clarity, content and distribution of signs.

You have not posted anything here, so how could we judge or advise regarding whether any enforceable breach occurred.

Call me Mr. Picky, or similar, but I like to start at this point.
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MHU
post Mon, 11 Dec 2017 - 11:07
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Mon, 11 Dec 2017 - 10:28) *
You go to the gym every day.

You have therefore had time to investigate their claim regarding the clarity, content and distribution of signs.

You have not posted anything here, so how could we judge or advise regarding whether any enforceable breach occurred.

Call me Mr. Picky, or similar, but I like to start at this point.



i have posted the sign, the PCN reason, my appeal, what else do you want me to post here?

I have said there is no sign, lines in that area where i parked ..but there is on other parts of the car park
Also said you can park after 4.30PM for Gym use ..

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ostell
post Mon, 11 Dec 2017 - 12:30
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Checked on the Darwen Council web site and that car park gets a mention. It could, therefore, be council owned with a Parking Places Order on it and therefore not relevant land for the purpose of POFA and the keeper cannot be held liable.

Contact the council and find out the true status of this land, Council Owned, Parking Place Order etc.

This post has been edited by ostell: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 - 12:31
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MHU
post Tue, 12 Dec 2017 - 11:14
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I am thinking of sending this reply for the not parked in bay ticket:

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. There are no signs present in the area where I was parked, and your unremarkable and obscure signs in other parts of the car park were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs, which would be a thinly-veiled attempt at 'double recovery'. I will not respond to debt collectors and to involve a third party would be a failure to mitigate your costs as well as deliberate and knowing misuse of my data.

I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,


and this for the one saying i parked there before 4.30

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

The leisure centre allows its members to park in the car park after 16.30, and this vehicle was parked there after 16.30. Your notice of the vehicle being parked at 16.20 is incorrect.
Please provide full photographic or video evidence with time stamps of this vehicle being parked in the car park before 16.30

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs, which would be a thinly-veiled attempt at 'double recovery'. I will not respond to debt collectors and to involve a third party would be a failure to mitigate your costs as well as deliberate and knowing misuse of my data.

I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,



Do these seem sufficient to send?
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SchoolRunMum
post Tue, 12 Dec 2017 - 19:21
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That'll do.
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MHU
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 09:09
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Tue, 12 Dec 2017 - 19:21) *
That'll do.


Thank you
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ostell
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 09:15
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Have you contacted the council yet ?? If it is council land they cannot claim at all against the keeper.
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MHU
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 11:14
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Letters posted, with signed for delivery ..

waiting game now
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 11:50
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No!

Noone said to use signed for

ALWAYS first clas with FREE proof of posting

It is deemed dleivered 2 days later

They can reject signed for and then you have *proof* it wasnt delivered, meaning it was never serrved on them.
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MHU
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 12:07
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 11:50) *
No!

Noone said to use signed for

ALWAYS first clas with FREE proof of posting

It is deemed dleivered 2 days later

They can reject signed for and then you have *proof* it wasnt delivered, meaning it was never serrved on them.



Ok, i can change to that as i am sending from work and it leaves at 4pm

QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 11:50) *
No!

Noone said to use signed for

ALWAYS first clas with FREE proof of posting

It is deemed dleivered 2 days later

They can reject signed for and then you have *proof* it wasnt delivered, meaning it was never serrved on them.



Thanks for letting me know
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Steve_999
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 12:13
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QUOTE (MHU @ Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 12:07) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 11:50) *
No!

Noone said to use signed for

ALWAYS first clas with FREE proof of posting

It is deemed dleivered 2 days later

They can reject signed for and then you have *proof* it wasnt delivered, meaning it was never serrved on them.



Ok, i can change to that as i am sending from work and it leaves at 4pm

QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 11:50) *
No!

Noone said to use signed for

ALWAYS first clas with FREE proof of posting

It is deemed dleivered 2 days later

They can reject signed for and then you have *proof* it wasnt delivered, meaning it was never serrved on them.



Thanks for letting me know



Just pop into a Post Office and pass it over the counter, requesting a certificate of posting (free),

You won't be able to get a certificate if you post it out via your work mailroom I suspect.
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MHU
post Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 14:23
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QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 12:13) *
QUOTE (MHU @ Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 12:07) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 11:50) *
No!

Noone said to use signed for

ALWAYS first clas with FREE proof of posting

It is deemed dleivered 2 days later

They can reject signed for and then you have *proof* it wasnt delivered, meaning it was never serrved on them.



Ok, i can change to that as i am sending from work and it leaves at 4pm

QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 13 Dec 2017 - 11:50) *
No!

Noone said to use signed for

ALWAYS first clas with FREE proof of posting

It is deemed dleivered 2 days later

They can reject signed for and then you have *proof* it wasnt delivered, meaning it was never serrved on them.



Thanks for letting me know



Just pop into a Post Office and pass it over the counter, requesting a certificate of posting (free),

You won't be able to get a certificate if you post it out via your work mailroom I suspect.


ok, i will do that
thanks
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