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Sad times - assisting emergency service vehicle to pass not possible
Richard11
post Fri, 17 Nov 2017 - 17:27
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I was already waiting at a red light when the ambulance came around the corner behind me a few moments later. Despite the ambulance honking its horn, I chose not to make room by moving forwards even though it was safe to do so because I would have run a red light by a couple of meters.

I feel a little guilty blocking the ambulance even though it was only for maybe 10 few seconds until the lights changed back to green, but the law is the law ? highway code 219. It feels like a case of complying with the law to avoid potential prosecution, but not doing the right thing. Anyone else had a similar experience ?

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post Fri, 17 Nov 2017 - 17:27
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 15:47
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 20 Nov 2017 - 16:07) *
Covers some of my pet hates on how people react when blues and twos appear.
Pulling over on blind bends and hills for one.
Why people do it beats me, the emergency drivers are usually good but not clairvoyant.


i agree you see people doing stupid things (and they say the driving test is harder now) but what really gets my goat is people who just don't care pulling out of junctions or into a lane in front of ambulance

Did any one see the news story last week about the idiot who stuck a note on an ambulance windscreen because it was parked in front of their drive. Trying to save a gut's life.
nice neighbour


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/12...eat-critically/

This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 16:23
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Fredd
post Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 16:19
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 15:36) *
Quite liked the "don't overtake an emergency vehicle with blue lights"

Why ever not rolleyes.gif

Ever found yourself behind a fire engine on a motorway? huh.gif


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mickR
post Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 19:04
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QUOTE (Rallyman72 @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 14:17) *
Sometimes there is no need to pull over and certainly no need to immediately stop. Carrying on will often get one to a wider bit of road or an opportunity to pull over. A bit of thought will help the emergency crew, lack of it can hinder them.


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mickR
post Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 19:22
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 16:36) *
Quite liked the "don't overtake an emergency vehicle with blue lights"

Why ever not rolleyes.gif


Especially if it's one these
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DancingDad
post Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 21:19
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 16:19) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 15:36) *
Quite liked the "don't overtake an emergency vehicle with blue lights"

Why ever not rolleyes.gif

Ever found yourself behind a fire engine on a motorway? huh.gif


Yup, three of them in convoy on one occasion, all manfully holding 55-60 in the inside lane with the blues flashing.
Mea Culpa, I was not behind for long.

I quite like the ambulance on a motorway, blues flashing half mile behind you but not catching up...never seen the point of slowing to let it go past.
But am aware that it could be going to a crash further along so am alert for the wall to wall brake lights ahead and sudden stop.
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Steve_999
post Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 23:20
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 21:19) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 16:19) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 15:36) *
Quite liked the "don't overtake an emergency vehicle with blue lights"

Why ever not rolleyes.gif

Ever found yourself behind a fire engine on a motorway? huh.gif


Yup, three of them in convoy on one occasion, all manfully holding 55-60 in the inside lane with the blues flashing.
Mea Culpa, I was not behind for long.

I quite like the ambulance on a motorway, blues flashing half mile behind you but not catching up...never seen the point of slowing to let it go past.
But am aware that it could be going to a crash further along so am alert for the wall to wall brake lights ahead and sudden stop.



Or serious spinal injury for which slow and steady is safer for the patient than quick and jerky?
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mickR
post Wed, 29 Nov 2017 - 23:07
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QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Wed, 22 Nov 2017 - 00:20) *
slow and steady is safer for the patient than quick and jerky?


I'm in favour of slow and steady wink.gif
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Steve_999
post Wed, 29 Nov 2017 - 23:32
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But then again, variety is the spice of life is it not?
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fedup2
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 07:52
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 15:47) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 20 Nov 2017 - 16:07) *
Covers some of my pet hates on how people react when blues and twos appear.
Pulling over on blind bends and hills for one.
Why people do it beats me, the emergency drivers are usually good but not clairvoyant.


i agree you see people doing stupid things (and they say the driving test is harder now) but what really gets my goat is people who just don't care pulling out of junctions or into a lane in front of ambulance

Did any one see the news story last week about the idiot who stuck a note on an ambulance windscreen because it was parked in front of their drive. Trying to save a gut's life.
nice neighbour


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/12...eat-critically/



Who is they?
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peterguk
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 10:07
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QUOTE (fedup2 @ Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 07:52) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 15:47) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 20 Nov 2017 - 16:07) *
Covers some of my pet hates on how people react when blues and twos appear.
Pulling over on blind bends and hills for one.
Why people do it beats me, the emergency drivers are usually good but not clairvoyant.


i agree you see people doing stupid things (and they say the driving test is harder now) but what really gets my goat is people who just don't care pulling out of junctions or into a lane in front of ambulance

Did any one see the news story last week about the idiot who stuck a note on an ambulance windscreen because it was parked in front of their drive. Trying to save a gut's life.
nice neighbour


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/12...eat-critically/



Who is they?


Those that fail?


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fedup2
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 11:07
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 10:07) *
QUOTE (fedup2 @ Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 07:52) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 21 Nov 2017 - 15:47) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 20 Nov 2017 - 16:07) *
Covers some of my pet hates on how people react when blues and twos appear.
Pulling over on blind bends and hills for one.
Why people do it beats me, the emergency drivers are usually good but not clairvoyant.


i agree you see people doing stupid things (and they say the driving test is harder now) but what really gets my goat is people who just don't care pulling out of junctions or into a lane in front of ambulance

Did any one see the news story last week about the idiot who stuck a note on an ambulance windscreen because it was parked in front of their drive. Trying to save a gut's life.
nice neighbour


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/12...eat-critically/




Who is they?


Those that fail?


Its now kids stuff with few excersises actually tested and more time going to showing how to turn the wipers on rather than how to actually drive.As of 2nd nov reverse round a corner was dropped aswell so with 15 minors to go at,a chimp has a reasonable chance of passing and it shows on the roads.

A distant family member has recently 'passed' within hours they had bashed a wall and hasnt the confidence to take P plates off nor go on a motorway.They are absolutely useless and beggers belief they have passed,even by their own statings.

As for emergency vehicles,they dont drop out of the sky.If you drive not stuffed upto the bumper in front or on red light lines then there is always somewhere to go.Trouble is many panic and instead of just creating a passing point,cause mayhem pulling onto kerbs and all other sorts of unessercary dangerous crap that really isnt required should you use a little bit of thought and planning.Ive certainly never found the need to run a red light to enable a blue light to pass.

This post has been edited by fedup2: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 11:09
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SDWA
post Sun, 3 Dec 2017 - 20:44
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Been there. Had a blue flasher (cops) come behind me at a red light and the street furniture meant it couldn't get past. But the horn or siren was not sounded, and I couldn't be sure if there was a camera there. I crept right up to the line and as soon as the light changed let him pass - as the car did, they didn't gesture or even look in my direction (having an emergency on their minds). Emergency vehicle drivers probably think the same as most of us do about this.
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DancingDad
post Tue, 5 Dec 2017 - 23:20
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An interesting variation on the theme earlier today.
Wide road, moving traffic, blues and twos behind as ambulance crosses the lights 100yds back.
Blues stay on, traffic moves over and indeed stops.
Ambulance overtakes.
White Van Man decides to take advantage of the stopped traffic and pulls out from side road, across highway and ambulance.
Cue brakes, horns and sirens back on (not necessarily in that order)
Ambulance was braking before white van cleared the static car so they were aware.
Unlike White Van Man.
White van man cursing and gesturing at ambulance before getting out of the way was the icing on the cake.
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whitewing
post Fri, 15 Dec 2017 - 00:32
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In that situation I'd probably move, but record the ambulance on phone/dashcam as evidence
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Korting
post Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 17:01
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If you did get a NIP for crossing a red light to allow an emergency vehicle to pass, you'd have to plead guilty but with mitigating circumstances and hope for the magistrates to dismiss the case.

BUT

There used to be some give and take with the police which sadly has all but gone, so I'm with the O/P on this one and will not go through a red light for anyone unless directed to by a uniformed officer. Not 'uniformed' not plain clothes police with a warrant card.

Look at it this way, you help the emergency services out but get landed with £100 fine, three points, an increase in insurance premiums. So not thanks ~i'll stay behind the line at a red traffic light.
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Fredd
post Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 17:31
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QUOTE (Korting @ Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 17:01) *
Look at it this way, you help the emergency services out but get landed with £100 fine, three points, an increase in insurance premiums.

Unfortunately, in the case of an ambulance or fire engine at least, it's not really the emergency services you're hurting but the poor b*****d they're going to help - which for some of us results in a dilemma.


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andy_foster
post Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 18:03
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QUOTE (Korting @ Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 17:01) *
If you did get a NIP for crossing a red light to allow an emergency vehicle to pass, you'd have to plead guilty but with mitigating circumstances and hope for the magistrates to dismiss the case.


Is this just your unqualified opinion, or is it concrete fact backed up with case law?


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Korting
post Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 18:15
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I'm not a lawyer, but technically if you pass a red light, your are guilty of the offence, the mitigating circumstances are that committed the offense in order to assist an emergency vehicle.
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andy_foster
post Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 18:20
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QUOTE (Korting @ Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 18:15) *
I'm not a lawyer, but technically if you pass a red light, your are guilty of the offence, the mitigating circumstances are that committed the offense in order to assist an emergency vehicle.


If you had bothered to read the thread before posting you opinions as fact, you would be aware that s. 36(1) does not create an absolute offence (please note the spelling), so the defences of duress and duress of circumstances could apply. If you reasonably believed that it was necessary and appropriate to cross the red light in order to mitigate a real likelihood of death or serious injury, then no offence would have been committed by doing so.


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southpaw82
post Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 18:31
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QUOTE (Korting @ Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 18:15) *
I'm not a lawyer, but technically if you pass a red light, your are guilty of the offence, the mitigating circumstances are that committed the offense in order to assist an emergency vehicle.

You’re not a lawyer but you’re going to make an absolute assertion as to the law? Pretty brave...


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