Grounds for appeal - Vehicle Control Services, no parking no waiting Options

[Yes lad]

I have received a parking charge form VCS for contravention of code 46 Stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited. the sign on the private road states no parking no waiting.

The driver stopped on this road to pick up passenger, passenger was there an got in the car straight away the driver of the vehicle did not leave the vehicle therefore no parking and no waiting took place. the letter has photographs of passenger entering the vehicle between picture 1 to picture 3 there is less than 30 seconds.

as no parking and no waiting took place is that grounds to have the charges dropped?

the driver didnt realise the signs where there all though there are number of the signs along the side of the road none of which are facing the oncoming traffic all face the road head on so if your driving down the road you would not be able to read them without stopping to and looking to your right.

This post has been edited by Yes lad: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 19:13

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[kommando]

Edit your post so the identity of the driver is not inferred.

A sign that says no parking or waiting is prohibitive and cannot form a contract, need photo of sign to confirm.

[cabbyman]

LJLA?

Lots of help will be available on this one. There is a lot of activity against VCS at this site all with the aim of getting them into court to put an end to their antics.

As Kommando has said, EDIT your post severely to avoid inferring the driver's identity and that of other family members.

[Yes lad]

please see the attached sign, if you need to see the small print clearer i can get a clearer picture tomorrow. any help is much appreciated. thank you



This post has been edited by Yes lad: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 19:28

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[cabbyman]

Is it the airport?

[Yes lad]

no it's a private road owned by a company which leads to a car park and a well known hotel. very quiet road

shouldn't the signs face the oncoming traffic if it is no stopping the traffic faces out to the road but not towards the oncoming traffix

[cabbyman]

OK. Yes, post clearer pictures of the signs and a fully redacted copy of the PCN.

I would suggest writing:

Dear sirs,

ref xxxxx

I write as the registered keeper of the subject vehicle.

I am not liable for the charge because your PCN woefully fails the requirements of the PoFA 2012.

You must contact the driver, if you have their address. I am not required to name the driver and will not be doing so.

Should you wish, I am perfectly prepared to submit to alternative dispute resolution through a competent body that substantially meets the provisions of The Alternative Dispute Resolution for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015. The Ombudsman Service and POPLA are two such organisations. As you are perfectly well aware, the IAS woefully fails to meet ADR requirements.

Otherwise, cancel the charge and cease processing my personal information forthwith.

Love and kisses.

Await the comments of others.

[nosferatu1001]

Dont expect VCS to actually cancel that

OP youre still not understanding - if they FORBID you from doing something they cannot say they offered you a contract. If there is no contract offered, there is no charge to pay. The fact the signs also dont face the actual road, AND A SEPARATE POINT that the signs contain far too many words to be read from a moving car, AND A NOTHER POINT that the core onerous term - £100 for stopping! - is too small to be read, are all key points should htey try to take this to court.

[Yes lad]

Ah ok so do you not mention any of these points unless they are looking to take you to court?

please see pictures of the sign provided and also the PCN letter/

This post has been edited by Yes lad: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 - 10:56

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[nosferatu1001]

You dont bother, because VCs do not listen. Your research - PLEASE SAY YOURE DOING SOME! - will have told you there is no meaningful appeal to VCS - i.e. one that will get it cancelled. You instead appeal so that you are reasonable when it comes to court. In your defence in court you then mention everything else. They know FULL WELL what they are doing here. Stop presuming they are acting in good faith - they are not.

[hexaflexagon]

You dont bother, because VCs do not listen. Your research - PLEASE SAY YOURE DOING SOME! - will have told you there is no meaningful appeal to VCS - i.e. one that will get it cancelled. You instead appeal so that you are reasonable when it comes to court. In your defence in court you then mention everything else. They know FULL WELL what they are doing here. Stop presuming they are acting in good faith - they are not.

x2. We'll put.

[Yes lad]

OK. Yes, post clearer pictures of the signs and a fully redacted copy of the PCN.

I would suggest writing:

Dear sirs,

ref xxxxx

I write as the registered keeper of the subject vehicle.

I am not liable for the charge because your PCN woefully fails the requirements of the PoFA 2012.

You must contact the driver, if you have their address. I am not required to name the driver and will not be doing so.

Should you wish, I am perfectly prepared to submit to alternative dispute resolution through a competent body that substantially meets the provisions of The Alternative Dispute Resolution for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015. The Ombudsman Service and POPLA are two such organisations. As you are perfectly well aware, the IAS woefully fails to meet ADR requirements.

Otherwise, cancel the charge and cease processing my personal information forthwith.

Love and kisses.

Await the comments of others.

if I use this letter template then do you think that will be suffice? what will be the next stage? and what is the likely hood I will have to contest this in court?

[nosferatu1001]

You haven't done your research

Come back when you have done. Go back a couple of pages. Your answers are all there.

You didn't even read what I wrote!

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 - 16:57

[cabbyman]

+1

[Yes lad]

apologies I misunderstood. i have attempted to do my own letter got he best of my ability highlighting key discrepancies within the signs is this sufficient for an appeal.

As the owner of the vehicle you have issued me with a Private Charge Notice. I am not required to name the driver and will not be doing so.
On looking at the details of the noted charge you have stated contravention 46) stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited. Later going on to state; “The driver of the above vehicle is liable for the parking charge for which payment is now due. The period of parking…”
Is the offence therefore for stopping or parking?
The road signs states the following:-
Private property
Terms and Conditions Apply
No Parking or Waiting at any Time
By parking on this private land you fully understand and agree to the contractual terms and conditions of Vehicle Control Services Ltd set out on this sign, If you breach the terms and conditions you agree to pay the Parking Charge stated below.
Charges apply 24 Hours per day
Parking Charge £100.00 per day or part day
Reducing to £60.00 if full payment is received within 14 days of the parking charge notice issue date (charges may include vat)
Payment terms are detailed in the parking charge notice. If you do not pay the charge stated in the notice. Vehicle Control Services Ltd will be entitled to take legal proceedings against you to recover the charge(s). You may also be liable for interest and any additional costs incurred.
If there is a breach of these terms and conditions. Vehicle Control Services ltd may request the details of the vehicles registered keeper from the DVLA to trace the driver in order to collect the charge. Vehicles are left on this car park at the drivers/keepers risk and Vehicle Control Services Ltd will no be liable for any loss of or damage to vehicles or personal possession.
Vehicle control Services Ltd
Manage and Control this private car park
Helpline (0114) 261 7373
For written appeal/challenges: PO BOX 4777, Sheffield, S9 9DH
www.vehiclecontrol.co.uk Vat No,. 7557800006 Registered in England & Wales 2498820
***********END OF SIGN***************

I have also attached a photograph for your ease of reference, however I am sure you are already aware of the details contained.
I’m sure you would agree there is a lot of detail contained with this sign. In addition you expect a driver to read all this detail whilst driving a motor vehicle, as stopping would be in breach of the contravention noted within this document. In addition the road sign within this particular road are all facing outward to the road and are not facing the oncoming traffic as you would expect from a road sign. Therefore how do you expect the driver of a car to read a road sign whilst keeping his or her eyes on the road ahead, without doing so would not only endanger their own life but would also endanger the life of others. Baring in mind stopping as you state is prohibited.
The road signs are in a position were by the driver would need to stop along side the sign therefore in breach contravention code 46 as stated in the issued parking charge notice. Rotate head and read what as stated within the road sign, which is a very long worded document I’m sure you would agree.
The offence which you have captured from picture 1 to picture 3 notes a time difference of 16 seconds, I would suggest 16 seconds would not even enable the driver to read the sign post.
In addition the sign states no parking or waiting at any time? The offence however for which you have committed is for stopping. Should the sign therefore state no parking, stopping or waiting!
Your sign also states as noted above; Vehicles are left on this car park at the drivers/keepers risk and Vehicle Control Services Ltd will no be liable for any loss of or damage to vehicles or personal possession.
So is this a car park or a road? I would suggest this is a road, the sign refers to this as a car park therefore would imply you can park a car which the sign forbids!!
Please also see the attached case of Parking Control Management UK v Christopher Bull
Claim No. B4GF26K6. With reference to paragraph 18 which I believe is also relevant in this case. I have attached the full judgment for your reference.

I am afraid that in my judgment that analysis just does not work in this case. It does not work for this reason. If the notice had said no more than if you park on this
roadway you agree to pay a charge then it would have been implicit that PCM was saying we will allow you to park on this roadway if you pay £100 and I would agree with Mr Samuels’ first analysis that essentially the £100 was a part of the core consideration for the licence and was not a penalty for breach. The difficulty is that this notice does not say that at all. This notice is an absolute prohibition against parking at any time, for any period, on the roadway. It is impossible to construct out of this in any way, either actually or contingently or conditionally, any permission for anyone to park on the roadway. All this is essentially saying is you must not trespass on the roadway. If you do we are giving ourselves, and we are dressing it up in the form of a contract, the right to charge you a sum of money which really would be damages for trespass, assuming of course that the claimant had any interest in the land in order to proceed in trespass.

Therefore this would suggest as you forbid somebody to do something you are not offering a contract at all. The sign states No parking then goes on to state by parking…..therefore contradicting itself.
In addition Clauses B2, and B2(a) and (b) in the KADOE agreement detailing the purpose for which you can obtain my details from the DVLA state;

B2. Purpose For Which Data Is Provided

B2.1. The DVLA shall provide each requested item of Data to the Customer via the KADOE Service for the Reasonable Cause of enabling the Customer to:

a) seek recovery of unpaid Parking Charges in accordance with the Accredited Trade Association Code of Practice, and using the procedure in Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (where the vehicle was parked on private land in England or Wales on a particular date); and

b) otherwise seek recovery from a driver of unpaid Parking Charges in accordance with the Accredited Trade Association Code of Practice (where the vehicle was parked on private land in Scotland or Northern Ireland by that driver on a particular date, or where the Customer has chosen not to pursue, or is not in a position to pursue the vehicle keeper by utilising conditions in Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012).
The convention reason provided 46) stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited. Therefore how have you obtained my details as this states parking charges which you have now brought against me but the reason provided is stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited.
As the signs do not face the oncoming traffic, there is by far to much information for a driver to read without stopping, the inconsistencies noted within the document I request you cancel the parking charge notice and delete all my personal information which you hold immediately.

This post has been edited by Yes lad: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 - 08:34

[nosferatu1001]

You still misunderstood

I said - effectively - that using that letter was fine, but you seem to think it will have an effect. It wont.

Youre setting your stall out, not giving everything away.

VCS WILL NOT CANCEL. Get this clear. They MAY try court. We cannot say the odds oin that - hence why I was saying YOU MUST LOOK FOR YOURSELF.

So dont send your letter .Send the shorter one. Concise is much much better. means if they do reply they have less to distract you with. You will NOT be appealing to the IAS, because AS YOUR RESEARCH HAS TOLD YOU that is a waste of time.

[Yes lad]

I'm not saying if it will have an effect or not I'm just trying to appeal it to the best of my ability. I will therefore send the shorter letter but can you clarify on which aspect the PCN fails the requirements? I think there are a number of good points in my letter highlighting discrepancies so I will keep them in my pocket for another day. but if sending the shorter letter I want to know how it fails the requirements of the PoFA 2012. on what Grounds?

I am not liable for the charge because your PCN woefully fails the requirements of the PoFA 2012.

[nosferatu1001]

Have you looked at POFA Sched 4 para 9?
It is a strict requirement. For example period parked. Well no parkng too place - someone boarded the vehicle. that isnt parking accordng to councils (you cannot park on double yellows, you CAN pick someone up on double yellows, for example) meaning the NtK cannot possibly ever be valid.

[Yes lad]

You Sir are a superstar. Thanks so much for your help.

[cabbyman]

My suggested letter is short so as not to give too much away but, you are still engaging with them in a reasonable manner. Their refusal to accede to your request and further bluff and bluster from them will play right into your hands to make them appear unreasonable.