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Zipcar PCN notice, onl
whackamole
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 17:12
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Evening all,

I am needing some help pretty pronto on a PCN I have received through Zipcar.

The notice is dated from early JUne however I only received the PCN from Zipcar on the 9th July. My appeal is due in 2 days 9am 13th July.

Here is my PCN that I received from Zipcar: https://ibb.co/GMM8Lh8

Here are the pictures of the car:
https://ibb.co/cgkrHdB
https://ibb.co/x56ZzxC
https://ibb.co/nftqd31
https://ibb.co/FhXCfhY
https://ibb.co/MM89dzt
https://ibb.co/F4zDn9S
https://ibb.co/H76Rqkc

I am thinking I will appeal on grounds that there is clearly enough space for the car to get out of the driveway onto the road as only a minimal and trivial part of the zipcar was adjacent to the fully dropped part of the kerb and this part of the dropped kerb was adjacent to a wall and not to the crossover into the driveway. I may also argue on the grounds that this is a de minimis situation and not one that contravenes the dropped kerb law in a meaningful way.

Do you think this works as an argument or should I take a different approach?

Additionally does anyone have an appeal template email that I can use to send to zipcar?

I appreciate it's short notice but I would really appreciate some help here.

Thanks!
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post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 17:12
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 17:32
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QUOTE (whackamole @ Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 18:12) *
Evening all,

I am needing some help pretty pronto on a PCN I have received through Zipcar.

The notice is dated from early JUne however I only received the PCN from Zipcar on the 9th July. My appeal is due in 2 days 9am 13th July.

Here is my PCN that I received from Zipcar: https://ibb.co/GMM8Lh8

Here are the pictures of the car:
https://ibb.co/cgkrHdB
https://ibb.co/x56ZzxC
https://ibb.co/nftqd31
https://ibb.co/FhXCfhY
https://ibb.co/MM89dzt
https://ibb.co/F4zDn9S
https://ibb.co/H76Rqkc

I am thinking I will appeal on grounds that there is clearly enough space for the car to get out of the driveway onto the road as only a minimal and trivial part of the zipcar was adjacent to the fully dropped part of the kerb and this part of the dropped kerb was adjacent to a wall and not to the crossover into the driveway. I may also argue on the grounds that this is a de minimis situation and not one that contravenes the dropped kerb law in a meaningful way.

Do you think this works as an argument or should I take a different approach?

Additionally does anyone have an appeal template email that I can use to send to zipcar?

I appreciate it's short notice but I would really appreciate some help here.

Thanks!


That is a notice to owner. and that is the operative word Owner. It is addressed to VW financial services and only they can make representations against it They can transfer the liability to you and then a notice will be issued in your name

We need to see dates they are important


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Neil B
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 18:16
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Ditto.

What has this got to do with you?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Mad Mick V
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 18:20
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+1
I thought Zipcar had got their act together on transfer of liability.

OP---I wouldn't appeal that infringement because you are bang to rights.

Why didn't you get the PCN? Was this a drop off point for Zipcar?

Have a search on this site for Zipcar and you will see what they are supposed to do. They are certainly not supposed to forward their NTO to you!

Mick
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cp8759
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 18:47
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+1, you need to tell Zipcar to challenge the PCN on the basis that they are a hire company and the car was hired to you, the council will then cancel their Notice to Owner and send a new one to you.


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Neil B
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 19:52
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QUOTE (whackamole)
I am needing some help pretty pronto

My appeal is due in 2 days 9am 13th July.

I don't get this; the forum showed you as typing a response a short while ago?

Where do you get that peculiar deadline from; is it something zipcar have said?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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hcandersen
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 22:40
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OP, reinstate dates in the NTO, it is hopeless for us to do anything otherwise.

And do it ASP.
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whackamole
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 22:48
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You can find the PCN with dates on in the link here: https://ibb.co/m5PyfFq

Do you think Zipcar will be willing to speak to the council and get the council to cancel the Notice to Owner addressed to zipcar? And get them to send a new one to me issued in my name?


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The Rookie
post Sat, 11 Jul 2020 - 05:17
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They don’t have to ‘speak to the council’ they just have to fill in the paperwork and return it.

Frankly they are inept and amateurish on their handling of PCNs, no excuse for that.


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Council PCN's
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Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
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Mad Mick V
post Sat, 11 Jul 2020 - 06:54
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OP---write to them and tell them (yet again!!!) they have a statutory exemption as a hire company and must inform the enforcement authority about the NTO as per:-

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/34...gulation/4/made

4(4)(d) that the recipient is a vehicle-hire firm and—

(i) the vehicle in question was at the material time hired from that firm under a hiring agreement; and

(ii) the person hiring it had signed a statement of liability acknowledging his liability in respect of any penalty charge notice served in respect of any parking contravention involving the vehicle during the currency of the hiring agreement;

From your perspective:-

1. Were you in charge of the vehicle at the time of the contravention?
2. Had you parked up the vehicle at a drop off point and thus didn't get a PCN?
3. Look at your agreement with Zipcar regarding your statement of liability (as above).
4. Make sure that you remind Zipcar as above to reduce the risk of the penalty increasing (a Charge Certificate) which would not be your responsibility.
5. If you paid by card look to protect yourself against a charge for the full penalty and admin charges.

Mick
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 11 Jul 2020 - 08:08
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You must understand this. You cannot do anything only VW financial services can and they only have until the 21st to do so or the penalty will increase

As noted by another poster they will try to recover any amount they pay from you, but your only liability should be £65


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whackamole
post Sat, 11 Jul 2020 - 09:14
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Thanks guys I will message them to get the PCN sent out in my name.

What’s the best way to protect my cards from being charged by Zipcar? Cancelling them?

Am I right in thinking that once I get the PCN in my name, that if I pay early I can pay a reduced amount? I checked on the Lambeth website, but couldn’t find any concrete info about Early payments?

Thanks
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 11 Jul 2020 - 09:37
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At this stage ( NTO) then not automatically but if you make representations then the council will likely re offer it


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cp8759
post Sat, 11 Jul 2020 - 09:53
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QUOTE (whackamole @ Sat, 11 Jul 2020 - 10:14) *
What’s the best way to protect my cards from being charged by Zipcar? Cancelling them?

Tell them that if they challenge the penalty on the statutory ground that they are a hire company the council will cancel their Notice to Owner, and if they (zipcar) fail to do so due to laziness or incompetence and they end up paying it instead, that will be a self-inflicted loss you cannot be held liable for.


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lab211
post Sat, 11 Jul 2020 - 14:40
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Read the email that ZipCar sent with the link to the PCN. Are you sure they haven't transferred liability already?
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whackamole
post Sat, 11 Jul 2020 - 14:46
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Zipcar said the following:

MESSAGE 1

We have received a Penalty Charge Notice XXXXXXXX. Unfortunately, having consulted our records I am sorry to inform you that responsibility has been attributed to your account.

The charge was issued after your reservation for parking at 12:41 on 2020-05-19. Your trip ran from XXXXXX to XXXXXXX.

We will pay the £110.00 charge in five days and will add this and a £15.00 processing fee to your bill then. The processing fee covers the cost of receiving, reviewing and paying the PCN on your behalf.

If you feel this Notice was issued incorrectly and would like to appeal it, please contact us by responding to this email within the 5 day window.

If we do not hear from you, the PCN and the processing fee will be paid and settled by Zipcar in 5 days’ time. So, if you are satisfied that the PCN has been issued correctly, no further action is required by you


MESSAGE 2

As the registered keeper of the vehicle, the issuing authority will only accept an appeal from us at this stage.

Please send us your appeal in a word document to by 9am on 13/07/2021 and we will forward this on your behalf along with a cover letter. If we have not received it by then we will assume that you no longer want to appeal and will pay and apply the charge to your account then. Please write this as you would want the issuing authority to read it. We will then be in contact when we hear back from them.

Does this mean that they have transferred liability?
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 11 Jul 2020 - 14:58
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No it means they are going to pay and charge you. I would tell them they must transfer liability.


What is the time of contravention their message seems a bit ambiguous ( unredact the photos date and time stamp


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lab211
post Sat, 11 Jul 2020 - 15:04
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No, they have paid it (or are soon to pay it) on your behalf and at the full penalty. So you need to try get them to transfer it into your name. If they pay it themselves then essentially they have accepted liability for it.

Pretty rubbish of them, I had one from them a couple of years back but they transferred it to me at the outset so I was able to challenge it.
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Neil B
post Sat, 11 Jul 2020 - 16:18
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QUOTE (whackamole @ Sat, 11 Jul 2020 - 10:14) *
Thanks guys I will message them to get the PCN sent out in my name.

For clarity, cos I don't think you quite get it so far.
A clear message quoting the legislation that allow them to transfer liability.

And you continue to call it a PCN ? It isn't a PCN, it's a Notice to Owner, which follows a PCN being served on the vehicle.

You've twice been asked about the actual PCN on the vehicle and why you parked there but not answered. Did you not get a PCN?
Just tells us what happened.

We're still missing dates because you've obscured the date of the contravention, on everything.

--
Priority is still to get liability transferred but we also need the bigger picture.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Sat, 11 Jul 2020 - 16:44


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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cp8759
post Mon, 13 Jul 2020 - 18:14
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If you have not already done so, send this in a word document:

QUOTE
Dear London Borough of Lambeth,

We appeal the Notice to Owner on the basis that we are a hire company and at the time of the alleged contravention, the car was on hire to Mr whackamole, please find enclosed a copy of the hire agreement. We look forward to prompt confirmation that the Notice to Owner issued to us has been cancelled.


In the email, remind them to send a copy of the hire agreement.


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