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Finally Got CCC, NCP>Trace Debt Recovery>Gladstones>CCC
Newt75
post Fri, 1 Jun 2018 - 13:11
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Firstly, apologies for this not being the first time someone's had to read this or similar stories.

Last year our vehicle was at an NCP site which uses ANPR. Exact details of what happened can be gone into in more detail if necessary, but we found ourselves receiving a 'Demand For Outstanding Payment' from Trace Debt Recovery. The amount was for £160 and their client NCP along with the date of PCN. No other details were given.

I phoned to inform them that this was the first notification we had of any incident and was told to put that in writing. This I did, politely declining their offer to pay the £160. I was also informed on the phone that we should have received 2 letters from NCP prior to this first letter. This was not the case.

I then received another letter from TDR stating that 'in the light of the fact you state you had not received the original notice, I have reinstated the full PCN amount of £100 for 14 days from the date of this letter'

This lead to much confusion as the PCN date quoted is 23/07/2017, and the Date of Posting This Demand is 10/04/2017.

On both of these letters we were informed that 'It is too late to appeal' and our 'Avenue of appeal has expired'.

Our next letter came from Gladstones Solicitors, again inviting us to make full payment withing 14 days. There were no particulars of the case or any evidence to support the claim. I'm unsure if I replied to this letter as I can't find a copy for reference (more fool me).

This was in November 2017 and was followed up with an LBC in February 2018. Again, there were no particulars, but this time they did include the location of the site in question. I replied to this letter using Gladstones website, acknowledging receipt and re-iterating their lack of detail and compliance with the rules.

Receipt of this was acknowledged, only for us to then receive another LBC in March. This we did not reply to, and yesterday (31/05/2018) received the full on County Court Claim Form. This now has the additional costs of £25 Court Fee, £50 Legal Rep Costs and interest of £9.69 continuing to judgement at £0.04 per day to judgement.

I've read as many posts as I could understand along the way to this point, and I fear I may have missed the opportunity to nip this in the bud a lot earlier than getting to this stage.

A CCJ is out of the question due to work restrictions, although am I correct that if we attend court and fail to defend, if we pay immediately then there'll be no record?

I know our first step is to acknowledge receipt of court papers, and then to build our case/ defense. And that's where you guys and gals come into play, as myself, I'm confused as heck as to what's what.

I know I have to do a lot of the work myself, but a firm prod in the right direction is definitely required.

Many thanks

*Topic Title edited after being corrected)

This post has been edited by Newt75: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 - 13:37
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post Fri, 1 Jun 2018 - 13:11
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 14:24
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Given a WS is fact, and a Defence is Argument, if youre repeating yourself then youre doing it wrong!

Defence Example: Insufficient signage to convey a contract
Witness Statement: A site inspection showed no signs at all visible from the positon the vehicle was parked on the day in question. See exhibits INITIALS/002 - photographs of the car park rfrom the position of the vehicle.
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Newt75
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 14:57
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I'm clearly doing it wrong then.

The fact we're defending the claim is because we never received the initial notices which NCP claim to have sent. It's not up until receiving their Witness Statement that we saw any evidence to support the claim. Their Witness Statement uses the fact that all correspondence has been to and from the same address, and as such there is no reason why we would not have received the initial documents.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:27
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Do you understand the difference between argument and fact?

Arguent: the defendant is not liable because no "Notice to Keeper" was served, as required to enable keeper liabilty as per POFA2012...

Fact: no Notice to keeper was received by me or any member of my household. The first communication from NCP was on...
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Newt75
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:52
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Ok, I'm sorry, I can understand you're frustrated with me here, probably no more than I am and half wondering whether or not to throw the towel in.

As it stands, we've Never received anything from NCP, only TDR and Gladstones.

I've been reading through some of the threads relating to WS and Johnersh says to tell it like a story. I've already formatted up the first legal bits and the like, I just need to know if I'm heading down the right road with the following type of thing:

I was first made aware of the incident with National Car Parks (NCP) when I received a letter from Trace Debt Recovery (TDR) Demanding £160 for outstanding payment (*1). This was dated 13th September 2017, nearly 2 months after the alleged PCN and contained no details of the charge, rather referring to their Client National Car Parks stating they themselves had already contacted myself requesting payment.

As I had received nothing from NCP at this point I contacted Trace Debt Recovery via phone and explained this was the first I had heard of anything. I was told to put this in writing, which I duly did (*2), pointing out the lack of correspondence.

A further letter was received from TDR in response to this dated 10th April 2017 (*3). In this they offered to reinstate the full PCN amount of £100 “in the light of the fact you state you had not received the original notice”.

I was also informed in this letter that my “next opportunity to appeal is in the county court”. In my mind this left me no opportunity to defend the claim and felt that I was expected to pay an unsubstantiated demand.

----

I know it needs to be numbered and formatted, I intend to do that after I've completed it.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:29
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It isnt frustration, its to make sure that you know why you wont be repeating the defence exactly - because the defence will have said you cant be liable as keepr because no documents were served as required under... and the witness statement will state that no documents were received within the period required...

So set it out like that - as a timeline of events.
You also need to start with the day in question - was the car parked there or not, for the lenght of time alleged etc.
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Newt75
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 19:25
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I throw myself at your mercy, and promise I am listening and reading. So far I have:


I am the defendant in the claim and do not deny that my vehicle EX56 PMV was parked at the location in question and at the time and date in question.

I live in ******, Derbyshire and at the time I was visiting family in Clacton with my young son. I don’t recall the reason why I needed to visit the town center, and this was the first time I had used the car park.

Having parked in the car park I left my son in the car and went to the machine to pay. I did this using my debit card and entered my vehicle registration as required.

I didn’t see any ‘Pay and Display’ notices so thought nothing of not receiving a ticket to place in the vehicle having entered my registration details.

The absence of Pay and Display signs at the entrance can be seen when comparing the photographs submitted by the Claimant in their Witness Statement 2-14 and 3-14 as part of their Site Acceptance Pack. (*)

These pictures were clearly taken at different times and bring into question the validity of the other signage referring to ‘Pay and Display’.

Other signage on the site also states that ‘There is no need to display a ticket’ (*)

A reasonable assumption was therefore made that payment had been made.

I was first made aware of the incident with National Car Parks (NCP) when I received a letter from Trace Debt Recovery (TDR) Demanding £160 for outstanding payment (*1). This was dated 13th September 2017, nearly 2 months after the alleged PCN and contained no details of the charge, rather referring to their Client National Car Parks stating they themselves had already contacted myself requesting payment.

As I had received nothing from NCP at this point I contacted Trace Debt Recovery via phone and explained this was the first I had heard of anything. I was told to put this in writing, which I duly did (*2), pointing out the lack of correspondence.

A further letter was received from TDR in response to this dated 10th April 2017 (*3). In this they offered to reinstate the full PCN amount of £100 “in the light of the fact you state you had not received the original notice”.

I was also informed in this letter that my “next opportunity to appeal is in the county court”. In my mind this left me no opportunity to defend the claim and felt that I was expected to pay an unsubstantiated demand.

A letter was then received from Gladstones Solicitors dated 22nd November 2017 stating that “Due to the absence of payment or a valid appeal” they had been instructed to recover the total amount of £160.

A letter Before Claim (LBC) was then issued by Gladstones dated 9th February 2018. My Husband duly replied to the LBC electronically acknowledging its receipt, again reiterating the fact that as to date their client (NCP) had failed to provide any form of contact (*4)

This reply was acknowledged by Gladstones themselves electronically (*5)

On the 13th March 2018 a further LBC was issued by Gladstones citing a lack of response to their first correspondence.

On the 25th May 2018 a Claim Form was submitted to the County Court. In response to this an official request was made to Gladstones to provide documentation in accordance to the Pre-action Protocol for Debt Claims (*6)

This request was never met and the only correspondence I had received at this time was either a Demand for Payment or notification of Court Proceedings.

The Claimant is stating that the original paperwork was sent and is inferring that it must have been received as all other correspondence has been to and from the same address.
In the same light, I contest that there is no reason I should not have received the original Parking Charge Notice had it been sent, and have no reason to say otherwise having pursued all parties from the outset for copies of them.

---------------

Formatting and numbering to be added when finished. (*) refers to copies to be attached accordingly.
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