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Several PCN's received from Parking Eye over a short period. Advice needed.
White Van
post Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 11:40
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I have recently been informed by my elderly mother that I have received 3 PCN's for overstaying the 90 minute time limit at the car park of one branch of a chain store operating in Somerset.
They were sent to the address on record for me at the DVLA though I have been on the road and not visited this address for some time.
I have been provided with minimal information by my elderly mother who is present at the address: dates and times of the overstay and the reference number needed to appeal or pay the charge. My mother is mentally ill and not willing to forward the letters or give any other information.
I found out about these letters the day before the deadline for reduced payment on the first event.
I have appealed the first PCN which occurred on a Sunday when the store was closed but the car park gates left open. On this occasion I overstayed by approximately 90 minutes.
The payments requested are £70 for each, reduced to £40 if paid by a certain date.
I overstayed in the same car park a further 2 times over the following 10 days for 40 minutes and 90 minutes.
The company controlling the car park is Parking Eye and they have photos of me in my van entering and leaving with time recorded.
I have used this car park many times in recent years as a customer and have previously overstayed on many occasions. It is only recently they hav started strictly enforcing the time limit. This seems like a form of entrapment.
Having read the information on this site it seems my best line of defence is that the charges are unreasonable but I seek advise on how best to word the further appeals to Parking Eye and the second appeal for the first PCN. Since writing this I have received another PCN for overstaying at ASDA and I expect another one for another branch of ASDA to be appearing shortly.
Many thanks for any advice on how to proceed.

Below is my first draft of the wording I may use for further appeals:
I have sought legal advice over this matter. Apart from not having the funds to pay these charges (I am a travelling musician and make my living by playing music on the street), I am given to understand these charges represent a claim for damages for breach of contract. For this purpose they are out of proportion and are in fact a punitive fine in disguise. I have no choice but to appeal since I do not have the funds to pay and will take my appeal to POPLA if you reject this appeal. I will also add that I have not been present at my DVLA registered address for some months and did not hear about your letters until after the final of these several incidents of overstaying occurred. If I had known that these car parks enforced the time limits so rigidly I would have been more circumspect in my actions. I shall certainly adhere to the time limits on my future travels.
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post Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 11:40
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Jlc
post Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 12:24
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They will reject any appeal you make.

Indeed, the charges are potentially enforceable at court following ParkingEye v Beavis.

Do the charges make reference to the Protection of Freedoms Act on the reverse? Is there still time to appeal?

You state you overstayed many times previously - perhaps this type of behaviour caused them to introduce the controls. It’s not entrapment...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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White Van
post Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 23:52
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Thanks for your reply Jlc
1. I have no choice but to appeal. There is no way I have the means to pay 5x £70.
2. Better hope they decide to not come after me then.
3. I have not seen the letters. The address is my mother's house and she is not very forthcoming with information.
If the allowance for appeals is 28 days there is still time for appeals.
4. No it was not my particular behaviour that caused the change in policies. It's Glastonbury. Only the extreme abusers would have been noticed. i. e. Camper vans staying all day and maybe even all night.
Entrapment or not the system has nothing to do with controlling parking and everything to do with making money out of hapless motorists.
I also wonder why the signs say " may incur a penalty charge " implying you might get away with it?
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White Van
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 10:56
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Here is the email I propose sending to the land owner:

Dear Sir/Madam,

My communication is in regard to 3 Parking Charge Notices I have  received from ParkingEye for overstaying the 90 minutes free parking limit at your Glastonbury branch. My registration number X X X X XXX. I am the registered keeper of the vehicle, X X X X X XXXX. 

I am an itinerant musician  (Busker) and have been a frequent visitor to Glastonbury over the last 6 years. I also supplement my income with occasional handyman work. In this capacity I have been a regular customer of your Glastonbury branch.

Over the years my routine in Glastonbury has been on many occasions to visit you store to purchase small items needed for my work and then go for coffee somewhere nearby, leaving my vehicle in your car park.

Until recently I have never received any complaint about slightly overstaying the time limit though I'm sure I must have done so on several occasions. 

This year however it seems the situation has changed and I have received the PCN'S I mentioned above. Unfortunately as I travel extensively for my work I had no knowledge of the letters sent to my DVLA registered address until after I had overstayed on 3 occasions over the course of my stay in Glastonbury.

While I understand the reason your store has made this change in policy as many vehicle owners travelling through the town abuse the free parking offered by the town's shops and supermarkets,  I feel certain it was not your intention to alienate your regular customers with the sudden imposition of draconian measures.

From my research into the system used by companies such as ParkingEye, I understand that it is possible for the land owner that contracts the services of a parking management company to forgive transgressions and instruct the company to cancel the charges. If you are not the land owner, please inform me who is, and I will direct my appeal to that party.

I therefore appeal to you company to forgive these transgressions and cancel the parking charges that have been demanded by ParkingEye and accept my assurance that the abuse of the privilege will never be repeated.

I must add that it is way beyond my means as an itinerant musician living a frugal life to meet the demands of a payment of £210.

Many thanks for your consideration of this appeal. I hope I  can continue to be a loyal customer and have a good and friendly relationship with you company.

Yours sincerely,
(name supplied)





Sent from Samsung tablet

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Umkomaas
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 11:02
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Not at all bad.

QUOTE
I am an itinerant musician

The term 'itinerant' might be misconstrued and prejudices risked. Why not use the descriptor 'peripatetic'?
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Jlc
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 12:35
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QUOTE (White Van @ Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 00:52) *
I also wonder why the signs say " may incur a penalty charge " implying you might get away with it?

Tell us more - who's sign is this?

QUOTE (White Van @ Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 00:52) *
1. I have no choice but to appeal. There is no way I have the means to pay 5x £70.
2. Better hope they decide to not come after me then.

They will reject any appeal - they are in it for the money only. They won't care about ability to pay.

They are serial litigators so a court claim is quite likely. Would a CCJ impact you? (i.e. impact credit ability)

QUOTE (Umkomaas @ Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 12:02) *
Not at all bad.

Indeed, but there's a good chance the 'landholder' will simply pass the matter to their contractor (and tell you to 'appeal', which is a fool's errand).

This post has been edited by Jlc: Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 12:36


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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White Van
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 12:53
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Jlc. The "may incur" is from memory. I'll need to check that. I'm not in that area at the moment. The PCN'S are from ParkingEye but the signs may predate them...
I am assuming I will lose any appeal but I would think they might not pursue the matter if they think I will not be able to pay.
Re: A CCJ and credit rating, I don't think I have much to lose. I have lived abroad for most of my life and always been self-employed when in UK. I have no credit cards or mortgages, etc.
My only real fear is that I will have my van ceased by bailiffs. Is that a possibility in your opinion?
Thanks
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Jlc
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 12:56
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QUOTE (White Van @ Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 13:53) *
I am assuming I will lose any appeal but I would think they might not pursue the matter if they think I will not be able to pay.

The ability to pay won't put them off I'm afraid. Even though it may not make economic sense...

QUOTE (White Van @ Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 13:53) *
Re: A CCJ and credit rating, I don't think I have much to lose. I have lived abroad for most of my life and always been self-employed when in UK. I have no credit cards or mortgages, etc.
My only real fear is that I will have my van ceased by bailiffs. Is that a possibility in your opinion?

Unlikely given the amounts involved.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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White Van
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 17:59
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OBTAINING INFORMATION BY EMAIL FROM PARKINGEYE?

Does anyone know if it is possible to correspond with PE by email including backdating letters already sent by them?
I'm finding it difficult not having direct access to my mail.
I am currently waiting for a response to an online appeal which I'm expecting to come by email. Am I mistaken about this?
Thanks for any advice about this.

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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 07:08
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You can of course email them. Appeals at or Enforcement@, depending on where you are in the process.

It should be emailed.
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White Van
post Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 20:41
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1st Oct 18, 8:34 PM
I now have had my mail forwarded and am in possession of the original letters.
I have also taken pictures of the signage in the car park where the first three incidents took place. The expected 5th notice has not materialised thankfully.
The forth incident was a supermarket in Bangor. Overstay 40 mins for a 3 hour limit. Doh!
I have not yet contacted the land owner. Welcome suggestions for how to handle that one. I was a customer but only bought a few groceries. It was a Sunday afternoon and the car park almost empty.
The signage for the store in Glastonbury was replaced when PE took on the management some time last year.
I'll see if I can attach the photos...
...
It's not obvious how to do that. What is the best way to handle photos please?
Thanks
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 09:18
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Just contact them asking them to cancel. Youre wasting time - weeks so far.

READ ME FIRST sticky tells you, which is why its called that. Try imgur, photobucket etc.

Stop prevaricating
ASk the landowner to cancel.
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ostell
post Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 12:48
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Not photobucket, they are not good for this now.
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White Van
post Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 21:40
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Nosferatu. I have contacted the first landowner already. My question about the second is on what grounds do I ask them to cancel? It was a large supermarket.
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ostell
post Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 21:49
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The fact that you were a customer should be good enough reason.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 10:06
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"Do you want me to stay being your custoemr, or shall I go elsewhere and tell all my friends, family, twitter followers, facebook groups etc to avoid this palace and the predatory parking company that infests it?"

Try that
Sheesh. You spent money there. What other good reason should there be?
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White Van
post Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 18:00
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Ok thanks for the suggestions above.
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