Doncaster Council PCN, Re-parked in the same zone |
Doncaster Council PCN, Re-parked in the same zone |
Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 15:01
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 25 Oct 2017 Member No.: 94,759 |
Hi everyone,
I would like to ask if there's any chance of successfully appealing this ticket? It was issued to my father's carer whilst she was in hospital with him waiting for surgery. I was there too in my own car, parked in a separate car park using his disabled badge. Basically there are several parking bays( like mini laybys) on the main road outside the hospital, where you can park for 3 hours for free, but then can't return within a specified time. My father's operation was delayed and he couldn't be left alone due to having a brain injury, Parkinson's and sever confusion/ anxiety. His carer moved her car from the initial bay as the 3 hour's time limit was approaching. She drove round looking for a new place to park, including the hospital car parks which were all full. She then returned to the parking bays on the road, but parked in a different bay to the one before, thinking this was classed as a separate zone. I've tried researching for possible appeal reasons, I noticed is the colour is noted as Silver on the PCN whereas her car is grey. If that isn't an option would it be worth mentioning Dad's disabilities, as a few things went wrong in hospital and we were having a traumatic time ? I'll try to attach a picture of the PCN in a separate post. Thanks in advance to anyone who may advise. |
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Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 15:01
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Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 22:12
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
The unanswered challenge is more or less OK I reckon. Yeah but they say they will generally extend the discount if challenged within 14 days so penalty exceeds. let them wriggle out of the generally. -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 23:16
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 25 Oct 2017 Member No.: 94,759 |
Thank you, I'm extremely grateful to you all for your help.
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Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 07:30
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,052 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
Whoa......
The OP posted: Then lo and behold my Dad's carer has received a letter from them OP, to whom is the NTO addressed as only they may make reps. You submitted the initial challenge as driver, but the NTO would be addressed to the registered keeper who it appears is not you. So don't submit reps in your name, they'll be rejected and eat up the 28 days. |
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Wed, 28 Feb 2018 - 05:08
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 25 Oct 2017 Member No.: 94,759 |
Hcanderson sorry if I haven’t explained it very clearly. The original ticket and all subsequent correspondence have been in the name of the carer. I’ve been helping her with it all and coming on here asking for advice as she’s not very good with stuff like this. Ultimately if we lose the appeal I will pay the fine, but it will be in her name as she is the registered keeper of the vehicle that was ticketed. I was driving my own vehicle which was parked elsewhere.
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Wed, 28 Feb 2018 - 07:25
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,052 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
As long as the reps are signed by the person to whom they're addressed.
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Wed, 28 Feb 2018 - 16:12
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
PMB - you were going to draft something for this worthy case.
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Wed, 28 Feb 2018 - 16:33
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
PMB - you were going to draft something for this worthy case. Yep sorry. will catch up and do it tonight Pleas let me know the date and time of your challenge, and the date and time of the e mail acknowledgement This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 - 16:38 -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 28 Feb 2018 - 23:16
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
send this edit as you will but don't forget to fill in the bits required, use verbatim or not at all up to you
Representations against the issue and continued enforcement of PCN number xxxxxxxx. Vehicle registration number AA 99 BBB I make these representations on behalf of the owner of the above vehicle. I have their complete authority to act on their behalf in this matter. Copy of written authority enclosed. All further correspondence should be sent to the following address xxxxxxx this being the required address for service. The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007 give the statutory grounds for representations. I make these representations on 3 of those grounds. 1// The alleged contravention did not occur; I make representation under thisground it the same manner as my informal challenge copied here Dear Sir/ Madam I would challenge PCN number DN41918XXX issued to my vehicle XXXXXXX in that the cited contravention did not occur. I parked my car in the bay to the left of the hospital entrance at 12:00. I removed it and then parked in an entirely different bay to the right of the hospital entrance after discovering there were no available spaces in the nearby hospital car parks. I did not re park in the same bay. I trust therefore I can expect your notification of cancellation of the PCN, soonest. If for any reason you disagree with this assertion, please provide the legal basis for doing so. This would include the CEO notes and photographs and also the TMO designating this area a parking zone and a map showing the location of the zone entry sign 2// The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case; The PCN was served on the 12Th of October of 2017. I made an informal challenge by e mail on the 25Th of October the 14Th day. As per your statement on the rear of the PCN “if you challenge the PCN within 14 days and the challenge is rejected, the council will generally extend the period within which the reduced payment may be paid “ As can be seen I made informal challenge within the required 14 day period, (copy of E mail acknowledgement attached). By serving a Notice to owner, the council renege on their commitment and thus demand a penalty in exccess of that allowed.. If it would be the councils submission that they do not have to re offer the discount. I would require a copy of the policy document used to decide when the council will and will not re offer the discounted payment. I am sure you will agree that the common law duty to act fairly would not leave this to the whim of the reviewing officer. 3// There has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority; regulation 3(2)(b) of the appeals regulations requires that if representations are made before a NtO is issued then those representations will be considered. I made these informal representations. Whilst the regulations do not require that a response be made, the councils own policy of re offering the discounted payment, would make a response obligatory. That no response was made, must by inference show that no consideration to my informal representations was made A procedural impropriety is described thus 5) In these Regulations “procedural impropriety” means a failure by the enforcement authority to observe any requirement imposed on it by the 2004 Act, by the General Regulations or by these Regulations in relation to the imposition or recovery of a penalty charge or other sum Where a procedural impropriety is found the PCN must be cancelled. This along with either of the other two points above lead to continued enforcement being unsound and the council should now cancel this PCN i -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 2 Mar 2018 - 18:54
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 25 Oct 2017 Member No.: 94,759 |
Hi Pastmybest, thanks for taking the time to draft a representation for me. I will be emailing it in to the council later this evening. I spoke to the council earlier today, they originally said I had to post the representation and the deadline for it to be received was today, but then agreed to let me email it and would still give it consideration even if received late. I'm going to submit it today anyway to be on the safe side.
I emailed the original challenge on 25/10/17 at 21:28, and received email acknowledgement back instantaneously so exactly the same date and time. I will update you when I hear anything back although I'm expecting a lengthy wait again as I was told they have a backlog of cases. Many thanks. |
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Fri, 2 Mar 2018 - 19:07
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
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Fri, 2 Mar 2018 - 19:17
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I'm expecting a lengthy wait again as I was told they have a backlog of cases. They have 56 days to reply to a formal appeal to an NTO. they can say what they want the law says the last day for representations is Monday the 5th march. make sure you keep a copy and get an acknowledgement -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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