[NIP Wizard] Received NIP but live abroad - what to do? |
[NIP Wizard] Received NIP but live abroad - what to do? |
Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 00:14
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 8 Jul 2015 Member No.: 78,196 |
NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Date of the offence: - July 2018 Date of the NIP: - 13 days after the offence Date you received the NIP: - 15 days after the offence Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Wolverhampton Road, Kidderminster t/w Wolverhampton Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Hire car How many current points do you have? - 0 Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I live in Thailand and was in the UK in July for my mother's 100th birthday. I rented a car whilst in the UK and must have been flashed. I only remember being on the road in question but not which day. It is possible that I was there on that day. Also, I have no idea just where the offence took place on the road in question - it's pretty long. However, I have no knowledge of the UK speeding system but see that I could do a speed awareness course which is obviously impractical. The only other option I seem to have is to admit to the offence which I can only assume I committed, but not being used to driving on UK roads, I really could not say what speed I was doing (I am used to kms/hour) or exactly where the offence occurred as I said above. Also, my recollection of the road is that it was a 40 mph limit but that seems to have changed - I would not have known that as I only visit once a year and this is the first time in that area for maybe 10 years. It seems unfair that not being resident in the country, I am denied one of the options and have to go for a self-conviction. I suppose I don't really mind paying the fine just to get this thing out of my hair, but after a month in the UK I am a bit broke. Can I pay by instalments? I am 69 years ol and a pensioner with no other income. I have just spent most of my savings on a month long trip to the UK and have very little money left to pay a fine with but obviously, going on a speed awareness course is impractical. As I only have the option of admitting the offence and paying a fine, that seems unfair just because I live abroad. And MUST I send in my UK licence? I am not really sure where it is because everything is all over the place after our trip. Will a copy do? I have a scan of it on my computer. NIP Wizard Responses These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation: Have you received a NIP? - Yes Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes Were you driving? - Yes Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England NIP Wizard Recommendation Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 00:14:12 +0000 This post has been edited by Slithy Tove: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 01:19 |
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 00:14
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 05:17
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Has this come to a Thai address or UK?
If you provide a Thai address and show you are an expat they may well just drop it, points would be meaningless and impossible to enforce unless you were caught on return to the UK. You can’t pay the £100 fixed penalty in instalments (the course would have cost the same and you can’t pay that in stages either), no. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 07:31
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 8 Jul 2015 Member No.: 78,196 |
Has this come to a Thai address or UK? If you provide a Thai address and show you are an expat they may well just drop it, points would be meaningless and impossible to enforce unless you were caught on return to the UK. You can’t pay the £100 fixed penalty in instalments (the course would have cost the same and you can’t pay that in stages either), no. Thanks for the reply. It came to the UK address of a friend which I use for the occasional correspondence I get in the UK. He scanned and emailed it to me, all SIX pages of it! The speed camera office will have contacted the car hire company and they will have passed on my licence details. Yes, I was hoping that I could call them and explain the situation and that they may just think it's all too much trouble. At a push, I can send them copies of my last 3 passports which shows that I have lived here since 2004, but that might also have an effect on my UK licence. I think living abroad might invalidate it, not 100% sure. Shame I couldn't pay the fine over a couple of months. My last trip past month cost me about £5,000 and I'd have liked a little breathing space. Do you think it's worth phoning them or writing to explain? This post has been edited by Slithy Tove: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 07:33 |
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 09:51
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
Unless you want to try the "I actually live abroad, nya, nya, nya" approach (which might work), borrow the money from someone to pay the FPN. All things considered, it's possibly the cheapest way out, and the three points and insurance implications would be meaningless for you.
The address on your driving licence just needs to be one where you can be reached, so I don't know on what grounds it could be revoked due to where you live. --Churchmouse |
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 10:04
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 8 Jul 2015 Member No.: 78,196 |
Unless you want to try the "I actually live abroad, nya, nya, nya" approach (which might work), borrow the money from someone to pay the FPN. All things considered, it's possibly the cheapest way out, and the three points and insurance implications would be meaningless for you. The address on your driving licence just needs to be one where you can be reached, so I don't know on what grounds it could be revoked due to where you live. --Churchmouse I don't need to borrow the money - I can manage £100 OK but I am on a parsimonious kick at the moment having just got back from the UK 12 days ago. That's almost certainly what I will do if, after trying to sweet-talk the issuing office, it hasn't worked. Yes, the points would be meaningless but it's just possible that the car hire would rise next year due to possible increased insurance. That's assuming they check my licence, of course. I hire a car from them every year and AFAIK, they just copy my licence details over from the previous year. I had thought that a UK licence could only be issued to a UK resident, but checking on an ex-pat website it appears not. They can't make a change of address to a foreign country though so you need to have somewhere where you can be reached, as I have done. Out of interest, what would a traffic office do if the driver of a hire car was say, French, German or some other nationality on holiday? This post has been edited by Slithy Tove: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 11:04 |
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 10:28
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Yes, the points would be meaningless but it's just possible that the car hire would rise next year due to possible increased insurance. That's assuming they check my licence, of course. I hire a car from them every year and AFAIK, they just copy my licence details over from the previous year.
A few years ago, hire companies didn't like to see points on a licence With the rise of speed cameras, they take no notice of three points My daughter was a branch manager of a hire company and commented that it was becoming uncommon to see a clean licence Out of interest, what would a traffic office do if the driver of a hire car was say, French, German or some other nationality on holiday? The DVLA creates a dummy licence and puts the points to it |
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 10:33
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Reply giving them your Thai address, I’d also include some evidence you are geuniunely an expat (for example in India you’d have a residency permit you could copy to them) as they are naturally going to be suspicious, if they try and enforce you can then make a call on whether to accept or not, if they don’t you’ve already won. There should be no risk in that at all.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 11:01
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 8 Jul 2015 Member No.: 78,196 |
Reply giving them your Thai address, I’d also include some evidence you are geuniunely an expat (for example in India you’d have a residency permit you could copy to them) as they are naturally going to be suspicious, if they try and enforce you can then make a call on whether to accept or not, if they don’t you’ve already won. There should be no risk in that at all. Thanks. I don't have a resident's permit but I do have a series of retirement visas going back years in my various passports from 2004. I also have official letters from HMRC, the Pension Service and UK insurance providers all with my Thai address on them so there's very little room for doubt. However, some hopeful news. I called the issuing CTO and explained my dilemma, who were very helpful. They asked me to put everything in an email with copies of evidence of my status and they would pass it on to their reviewing staff. Fingers crossed. I mentioned that I would not have the option available to UK residents of doing a speed awareness course and that points would be meaningless to which the chappie sounded quite in agreement. But who knows? This post has been edited by Slithy Tove: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 11:02 |
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 12:33
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
The camera offices are pragmatic, it sounds like you’ll get a good result.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 13:03
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 8 Jul 2015 Member No.: 78,196 |
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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 17:14
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
Unless you want to try the "I actually live abroad, nya, nya, nya" approach (which might work), borrow the money from someone to pay the FPN. All things considered, it's possibly the cheapest way out, and the three points and insurance implications would be meaningless for you. The address on your driving licence just needs to be one where you can be reached, so I don't know on what grounds it could be revoked due to where you live. --Churchmouse I don't need to borrow the money - I can manage £100 OK but I am on a parsimonious kick at the moment having just got back from the UK 12 days ago. That's almost certainly what I will do if, after trying to sweet-talk the issuing office, it hasn't worked. Yes, the points would be meaningless but it's just possible that the car hire would rise next year due to possible increased insurance. That's assuming they check my licence, of course. I hire a car from them every year and AFAIK, they just copy my licence details over from the previous year. I had thought that a UK licence could only be issued to a UK resident, but checking on an ex-pat website it appears not. They can't make a change of address to a foreign country though so you need to have somewhere where you can be reached, as I have done. Out of interest, what would a traffic office do if the driver of a hire car was say, French, German or some other nationality on holiday? Sounds like you've got it in hand now. Good luck. Obtaining a driving licence may require some sort of residency, but retaining it does not. I've often wondered if your legal obligations could be satisfied by "notifying" the DVLA of your foreign address--regardless of whether the DVLA wished to process the information or not... --Churchmouse |
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Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 01:18
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 8 Jul 2015 Member No.: 78,196 |
Unless you want to try the "I actually live abroad, nya, nya, nya" approach (which might work), borrow the money from someone to pay the FPN. All things considered, it's possibly the cheapest way out, and the three points and insurance implications would be meaningless for you. The address on your driving licence just needs to be one where you can be reached, so I don't know on what grounds it could be revoked due to where you live. --Churchmouse I don't need to borrow the money - I can manage £100 OK but I am on a parsimonious kick at the moment having just got back from the UK 12 days ago. That's almost certainly what I will do if, after trying to sweet-talk the issuing office, it hasn't worked. Yes, the points would be meaningless but it's just possible that the car hire would rise next year due to possible increased insurance. That's assuming they check my licence, of course. I hire a car from them every year and AFAIK, they just copy my licence details over from the previous year. I had thought that a UK licence could only be issued to a UK resident, but checking on an ex-pat website it appears not. They can't make a change of address to a foreign country though so you need to have somewhere where you can be reached, as I have done. Out of interest, what would a traffic office do if the driver of a hire car was say, French, German or some other nationality on holiday? Sounds like you've got it in hand now. Good luck. Obtaining a driving licence may require some sort of residency, but retaining it does not. I've often wondered if your legal obligations could be satisfied by "notifying" the DVLA of your foreign address--regardless of whether the DVLA wished to process the information or not... --Churchmouse Thanks. I just need to waste a day writing an email and scanning my passport and other documents now. From the comments made by the helpful chap I spoke to yesterday I think I may be OK. Fingers crossed. I have never told the DVLA that I live abroad as I wasn't certain what might happen if I did. I need to renew it in January anyway as I shall hit 70. I use my pal's address and I am still registered at my old GP because of that. I am not quite certain what happens about renewal but I may need a GP's letter at some stage which is why I stayed on their books. This post has been edited by Slithy Tove: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 01:18 |
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Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 05:51
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,300 Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,602 |
OP, regardless of the outcome, you will almost certainly find that the hire company have charged your credit card with an "admin fee" for handling this. Usually around £30.
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Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 14:10
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 8 Jul 2015 Member No.: 78,196 |
OP, regardless of the outcome, you will almost certainly find that the hire company have charged your credit card with an "admin fee" for handling this. Usually around £30. Nope. I didn't use a credit card. Never do, always cash. I've used them for over 30 years on and off and every year for the last 10 years for between 2 and 4 weeks each time. Anyway, the manager is a friend. Not a chance. This post has been edited by Slithy Tove: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 14:12 |
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Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 00:33
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35 Joined: 8 Jul 2015 Member No.: 78,196 |
Thanks to all who responded.
I am pleased to say that after sending an email explaining my situation, I received this email from the relevant CTO (West Mercia) yesterday - 'Dear Sir I can confirm as you reside outside of the UK no further action will be taken on this occasion. Please be mindful of the speed limits on your next visit to the UK. Regards ' So that's all good now, and I can take a little bit of a finger-wagging! :-) |
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