PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Vehicle with no insurance
nimh999
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 21:59
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,254
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Member No.: 7,753



Is it legal to drive a car with no insurance which belongs to someone else, with the owners permission from private land to private land using public roads if the driver holds any vehicle insurance?

I know it cant be parked on public road regardless of the drivers insurance.

This hasn't happened yet but I might have to pick a car up which isn't insured in the next week or so and I have been told the vehicle must have its own insurance.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
4 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 21:59
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
peterguk
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 22:06
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,735
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



What does your policy say about DOV? 99% require the car to be insured elsewhere.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nimh999
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 22:15
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,254
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Member No.: 7,753



QUOTE (peterguk @ Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 23:06) *
What does your policy say about DOV? 99% require the car to be insured elsewhere.


Nothing mentioned about the other vehicle being insured

Driving other cars
We will insure you whilst you are driving any other car within
Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands and the
Isle of Man providing:
1. The car does not belong to you or is not hired to you under
a hire purchase agreement.
2. You are driving the car with the owner’s express consent.
3. You still have your car and it has not been damaged
beyond cost effective repair.
4. You are aged 25 or above, at inception or last renewal
of this policy.
5. Your certificate of motor insurance indicates that you
can drive such a vehicle.
Important Note: the cover provided whilst you are driving
any other car is for Third Party only.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 22:21
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



You appear to have answered your own question.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nimh999
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 22:47
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,254
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Member No.: 7,753



QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 23:21) *
You appear to have answered your own question.


Yes possibly. Wasn't aware of that insurance clause but also wasn't sure if legislation said something else which if it did would trump the insurance policy
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 23:15
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,735
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE (nimh999 @ Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 23:47) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 23:21) *
You appear to have answered your own question.


Yes possibly. Wasn't aware of that insurance clause but also wasn't sure if legislation said something else which if it did would trump the insurance policy


The car will flag up as uninsured on Police ANPR. If you want to be on the safe side, call your insurance company and clarify.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Unzippy
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 03:58
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,006
Joined: 29 Oct 2013
Member No.: 66,323



Or use someone like dayinsure?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
samthecat
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 07:41
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 349
Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Member No.: 83,881



Is the car SORN'd?

If so then you could only drive it to a test appointment or would be commiting an offence regardless of insurance.

(If it's not on SORN and has no insurance the RK may also currently be liable to fall foul of continuous insurance regs)


--------------------
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 10:18
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 00:15) *
The car will flag up as uninsured on Police ANPR. If you want to be on the safe side, call your insurance company and clarify.

Take a copy of the cert' and Policy.......


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
panther12
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 10:55
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 237
Joined: 2 Sep 2005
Member No.: 3,695



Does the cert refer you to the relavent section of the policy wording. I've just insured through Santander and my certificate says similar with no mention that the other car needs insurance but it does point you to the policy wording which when you read that does say other car must have insurance.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Steve_999
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 12:41
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,397
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
From: West Sussex
Member No.: 20,304



QUOTE (panther12 @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 11:55) *
Does the cert refer you to the relavent section of the policy wording. I've just insured through Santander and my certificate says similar with no mention that the other car needs insurance but it does point you to the policy wording which when you read that does say other car must have insurance.


Post #3 looks very much like an extract from the policy document rather than the certificate of insurance. My own policy document is very similar, with no stipulation that the vehicle must be insured in its own right.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
baroudeur
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 16:38
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 938
Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Member No.: 73,212



So the advice that a car must have its own insurance in order to comply with the continuous insurance requirement when driven on a DOC cover isn't correct?

Or in other words....DOC cover on a policy permits an otherwise uninsured vehicle to be insured whilst driven by the holder of DOC cover?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 16:45
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,735
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE (baroudeur @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 17:38) *
So the advice that a car must have its own insurance in order to comply with the continuous insurance requirement when driven on a DOC cover isn't correct?

Or in other words....DOC cover on a policy permits an otherwise uninsured vehicle to be insured whilst driven by the holder of DOC cover?


Depends on the terms and conditions of the insurance policy.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Steve_999
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 16:55
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,397
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
From: West Sussex
Member No.: 20,304



QUOTE (baroudeur @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 17:38) *
So the advice that a car must have its own insurance in order to comply with the continuous insurance requirement when driven on a DOC cover isn't correct?

Or in other words....DOC cover on a policy permits an otherwise uninsured vehicle to be insured whilst driven by the holder of DOC cover?


You are looking at, potentially, two separate offences. (1) Driving a motor vehicle in a public place without insurance and (2) Failing to maintain continuous insurance cover on a motor vehicle not declared SORN.


So your statement that the car would need its own cover when driven on DOV on another policy in order to comply with the continuing insurance requirement is correct, unless there is no continuous insurance cover requirement, e.g. it is declared SORN. Whilst a vehicle is SORNed it may only be driven on a road to or from a pre-arranged MoT test. Therefore that is one time when it could be driven under DOV without having its own insurance policy in place, provided the DOV cover on the other insurance does not insist on the vehicle having its own policy in force.

If the vehicle is being driven, but not to or from the MoT testing station, the continuous insurance requirement is still not applicable, as the vehicle is SORNed, but the terms of the SORN are not being complied with so there's yet another transgression.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Churchmouse
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 21:41
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,356
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
From: Landan
Member No.: 20,731



QUOTE (samthecat @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 08:41) *
Is the car SORN'd?

If so then you could only drive it to a test appointment or would be commiting an offence regardless of insurance.

(If it's not on SORN and has no insurance the RK may also currently be liable to fall foul of continuous insurance regs)

That may be true, but the OP would be in the clear!

Another option would be to insure the car on a separate policy, then cancel within 14 days. There's often a fee to pay, but the insured day(s) would be pro-rata, so quite cheap.

--Churchmouse
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nimh999
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 10:07
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,254
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Member No.: 7,753



The car is currently insured fully street legal and not SORN'ed.

The policy is due to expire and it may have to be moved from private land to private land days after the expiry of insurance.

QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 22:41) *
Another option would be to insure the car on a separate policy, then cancel within 14 days. There's often a fee to pay, but the insured day(s) would be pro-rata, so quite cheap.
--Churchmouse

This was something I had considered or possibly adding it to an existing policy if the DOV was not an option.


QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 13:41) *
Post #3 looks very much like an extract from the policy document rather than the certificate of insurance. My own policy document is very similar, with no stipulation that the vehicle must be insured in its own right.

Which it is. This is a Quote me Happy policy.

Cert refers to policy and mirrors policy clause in shortened version



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Steve_999
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 11:05
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,397
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
From: West Sussex
Member No.: 20,304



QUOTE (nimh999 @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 11:07) *
The car is currently insured fully street legal and not SORN'ed.

The policy is due to expire and it may have to be moved from private land to private land days after the expiry of insurance.

. . . . .


In which case, if spotted, the failure to comply with continuous insurance requirement comes into play.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
baroudeur
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 12:03
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 938
Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Member No.: 73,212



QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 17:55) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 17:38) *
So the advice that a car must have its own insurance in order to comply with the continuous insurance requirement when driven on a DOC cover isn't correct?

Or in other words....DOC cover on a policy permits an otherwise uninsured vehicle to be insured whilst driven by the holder of DOC cover?


You are looking at, potentially, two separate offences. (1) Driving a motor vehicle in a public place without insurance and (2) Failing to maintain continuous insurance cover on a motor vehicle not declared SORN.


So your statement that the car would need its own cover when driven on DOV on another policy in order to comply with the continuing insurance requirement is correct, unless there is no continuous insurance cover requirement, e.g. it is declared SORN. Whilst a vehicle is SORNed it may only be driven on a road to or from a pre-arranged MoT test. Therefore that is one time when it could be driven under DOV without having its own insurance policy in place, provided the DOV cover on the other insurance does not insist on the vehicle having its own policy in force.

If the vehicle is being driven, but not to or from the MoT testing station, the continuous insurance requirement is still not applicable, as the vehicle is SORNed, but the terms of the SORN are not being complied with so there's yet another transgression.


So, to clarify a very confusing situation...

A vehicle ALWAYS needs its own insurance cover to be used on the road in order to comply with the Continuous Insurance Enforcement requirement.

DOV cover permits a driver not named on the vehicle insurance to drive the vehicle.

Continuous Insurance applies to any vehicle unless it is SORNed and not used on the road. When a vehicle that is SORNed is used on the road continuous insurance will apply and, unless it is being driven to a pre-arranged MoT test, an offence is using an untaxed vehicle occurs.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 12:18
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,126
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



When are you planning to make the journey ?

If you check AskMid you may find that it hasn't been updated regarding the expired insurance
As a potential driver you have the right to make a free check

This information is only useful to weigh up the chances that you'll be stopped
If your policy doesn't allow you to drive a vehicle not otherwise insured, you can't drive it whatever AskMid says
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Steve_999
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 14:30
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,397
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
From: West Sussex
Member No.: 20,304



QUOTE (baroudeur @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 13:03) *
. . . . .

So, to clarify a very confusing situation...

A vehicle ALWAYS needs its own insurance cover to be used on the road in order to comply with the Continuous Insurance Enforcement requirement. Yes - unless SORNed. Or "in-trade".

DOV cover permits a driver not named on the vehicle insurance to drive the vehicle. Yes - so long as the terms specified in the drivers policy are adhered to.

Continuous Insurance applies to any vehicle unless it is SORNed and not used on the road. When a vehicle that is SORNed is used on the road continuous insurance will apply and, unless it is being driven to a pre-arranged MoT test, an offence is using an untaxed vehicle occurs. Not exactly. Continuous Insurance Requirement is nothing to do with use on the road. Last sentence I assume you mean "uninsured" and not "untaxed", though both offences are likely to be comitted in that instance as a SORNed vehicle automatically has no tax. If a vehicle is SORNed there can be no contravention of the Continuous Insurance requirement as there is no such requirement on a SORNed vehicle.


Hope that hasn't confused you even more!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

4 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 23:31
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here