PCN and car towed whilst out of country |
PCN and car towed whilst out of country |
Mon, 21 May 2018 - 14:09
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 21 May 2018 Member No.: 98,047 |
Hi all,
I am hoping someone with a good legal knowledge of parking contraventions may be able to help! I have lived in the borough of Newham for a year and have parked in a designated bay in front of my flat since I moved in. Unfortunately, my resident's parking permit lapsed on May 7th and I forgot to renew it - I did not receive a reminder letter, but this is my fault for not being more diligent and renewing it at the correct time. Most councils seem to have a 7-14 day grace period, but from research, it appears Newham does not. On Tuesday May 15th, I went away on business (at 5am) and returned on Friday May 18th at around 4pm. Straight away, I realised that my car was no longer parked in front of my flat and assumed it had been stolen. I reported this to the police immediately, who took down all of my details and said that they could not see any information on their system relating to my car. I also reported this to the insurance company. The next morning, I called the police again to check for an update and they still said nothing had come up in their system. When I got off the phone, it suddenly occurred to me that my car could have been towed away - there is a lot of building in the area and therefore sometimes there are temporary parking restrictions (I still didn't know about my expired parking permit at this point). I found the details of my car on TRACE and immediately took a taxi to pick up my car from the Newham pound. I was told I had to pay a flat fee of £200 for the removal fee, £40 for the offence, and an additional £40 for each day the car was 'stored' in the pound, costing a total of £360. The PCN I received was issued at 1:26pm on Tuesday May 15th. The car was picked up for towing at 2:10pm and arrived at the pound at 2:39pm. I would like to know if I have grounds for appeal based on the fact that I was out of the country from Tuesday-Friday (and therefore unable to move the car in the 34 minutes the car had a PCN stuck to the windscreen, and unable to pick up the car from the pound), and also that the police gave me incorrect information (and didn't check TRACE) so that I was delayed in picking up the car by an additional day? I have attached the PCN and release form. Thank you all in advance for your help! This post has been edited by sml7: Mon, 21 May 2018 - 14:10
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Mon, 21 May 2018 - 14:09
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Mon, 21 May 2018 - 14:23
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
OK, Newham tow at the drop of a hat but this one must be disproportionate as it's a lower level code 19 for an expired permit. I would expect to get the tow and storage charge back on this one.
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Mon, 21 May 2018 - 17:54
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#3
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 21 May 2018 Member No.: 98,047 |
Thank you - is there a legal basis for this when I appeal?
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Mon, 21 May 2018 - 20:16
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
So exactly what do permit holders expect?
On the one hand they pay for a permit, the income from which pays for enforcement of their entitlement to park, which they must accept means exercising the ultimate right to remove unentitled vehicles. And on the other they complain when, through their own mistake, they are the unentitled vehicle. Is it an 'invalid' permit with the holder just forgetful, or a holder who has moved or has no intention of renewing? And whose obligation is it to check? Just make your points, but temper your temper. |
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Mon, 21 May 2018 - 20:35
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#5
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
Try this one:-
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1378100 Plus I am not sure the storage calculation is correct--we've had this before with Newham. Mick |
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 08:04
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#6
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 21 May 2018 Member No.: 98,047 |
Please could you clarify what you mean about the storage not being correct? Have they overcharged or undercharged?
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 08:42
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#7
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
Secretary of State's Statutory Guidelines:-
8.28 Storage charges should apply for each day or part of day, reckoned from 2400 midnight on the day following removal of a vehicle. Maths are not my forte but I reckon you have been charged storage for the 16th. Mick |
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 08:58
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
Car removed 15th
Car collected 19th. Storage charges as at midnight 16th, 17th and 18th = 3*£40=£120 would be my take on this. |
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 08:59
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#9
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 21 May 2018 Member No.: 98,047 |
Thank you Mick, much appreciated.
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 10:10
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#10
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
According to the receipt the release date was the 18th.
Whether a procedural impropriety exists I'll leave to others. Mick EDIT The incomparable Bogsy suggests an alternative definition of storage charges in this thread:- http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1248242 This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Tue, 22 May 2018 - 10:32 |
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 14:42
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#11
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 21 May 2018 Member No.: 98,047 |
So to conclude, do I appeal or is it a waste of time?
Thanks all. |
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 15:08
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
You have nothing to lose by appealing. It cannot be a priority to tow for a lower level code 19. Here's is Newham's policy for removal - guess which one you are:
Removal Policy Priority One: i) Parked in contravention in a position/location which is prohibited and is causing danger, & serious health and safety implications for other road users or pedestrians. ii) Illegally parked in a formal disabled bay (30 minutes waiting time or 15 minutes if persistent evader *) Priority Two: i) Persistent evader (parked in prohibited place) ii) Parked in an operational Bus Lane or at a Bus Stop iii) Vehicle with foreign registration plate (parked in prohibited place) iv) Parked obstructing a dropped footway (on a resident’s request) v) Parked on a footway (parked in a prohibited place) vi) Parked on school Keep Clear Markings* vii) Parked in a Doctors Bay Priority Three: i) Parked committing a serious parking contravention (please refer to Appendix B above) Priority Four: i) All other contraventions This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 22 May 2018 - 15:08 |
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 16:06
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
OP, but get the story clear...
....and returned on Friday May 18th at around 4pm. The next morning, I called the police again to check for an update and they still said nothing had come up in their system. When I got off the phone..... I found the details of my car on TRACE and immediately took a taxi to pick up my car from the Newham pound. I was told I had to pay a flat fee of £200 for the removal fee, £40 for the offence, and an additional £40 for each day the car was 'stored' in the pound, costing a total of £360. That's 19th. OP, over to you please. |
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 16:10
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#14
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 21 May 2018 Member No.: 98,047 |
Correct, I picked the car up on May 19th - I would have picked it up a day earlier had the police completed their checks correctly and informed me it was in the pound. Instead, I was told nothing had come up in their system searches, leading me to believe the car had been stolen.
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 17:34
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
In which case, as you can support this with evidence (the payment receipt which was provided by them is dated 19th) you could be on to a winner.
I've never seen one of these before. You are to be informed in writing that the authority may disregard any reps received by them after 15th June, being the end of the period of 28 days comencing on when you were informed of these right, which is when you or someone authorised by you collects the car. But they haven't. They've informed you that you have until 14th June. In short, they convey the mandatory info through two separate docs: The sheet stating the release date; The pre-printed form which states your appeal rights. In combination, these give 14th June. Strangely, you even signed and dated the sheet 19 May. Didn't you spot that they'd inserted 18th? Anyway, IMO it's what they write in the form - it's their duty - and no blame could be laid at your feet. |
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Tue, 22 May 2018 - 18:26
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#16
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 21 May 2018 Member No.: 98,047 |
Thank you.
I did not notice - it was my first trip to the pound and their payment machines weren't working properly, so I was preoccupied with ensuring they hadn't charged me twice! So what would you advise me writing in my appeal form? |
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