Lewisham High St Bus Lane PCN |
Lewisham High St Bus Lane PCN |
Wed, 13 Nov 2019 - 20:09
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 8 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,368 |
Hi,
I've received a PCN saying I've gone through bus lane at Lewisham High St. I've seen couple of others had the same issue but wanted to share my papers with you to get some idea what could be the base of my appeal to council and adjudicator(assuming council is unlikely to accept). The weather was rainy and I slowed down once I noticed that I am in a bus lane, didn't consider a u-turn as I thought it would block the other potential traffic. So I continued to the end of the way to find an exit. Shouldn't there be a compulsory direction to turn left? Is this really a bus lane? What could be the defence? Attaching the relevant documents. Appreciate if you could help on this matter. Bus lane entrance: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4608601,-...6384!8i8192 PCN Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a_nSawGkOO...iew?usp=sharing |
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Wed, 13 Nov 2019 - 20:09
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Wed, 13 Nov 2019 - 20:26
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Not signed correctly for a bus lane
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 16 Nov 2019 - 23:07
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 8 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,368 |
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Sun, 17 Nov 2019 - 01:03
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I think it's meant to be a bus gate but the road markings are wrong. The words "bus lane" would lead you to believe there's a with-flow lane and the route is not restricted.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 17 Nov 2019 - 11:44
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I think it's meant to be a bus gate but the road markings are wrong. The words "bus lane" would lead you to believe there's a with-flow lane and the route is not restricted. its a 1996 regs PCN so I would be arguing the regulatory sign is missing should be the rectangular (959) not the round (953) also the lead in taper and deflection arrows -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sun, 17 Nov 2019 - 17:29
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Would the council not argue that the 1996 Act allows the enforcement of a bus gate because section 4(2) says a penalty is payable if (my emphasis):
if the person in charge of the vehicle acts in contravention of or fails to comply with an order under section 6 or 9 or regulations under section 12 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 in so far as provision is made thereby for the reservation of all or part of a carriageway of a road as a bus lane I would say it's plainly envisaged that the 1996 Act could be used to enforce bus gates and bus only streets, unless I've missed something? -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 17 Nov 2019 - 20:24
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 8 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,368 |
Do the above comments mean there are sufficient grounds to appeal to adjudicator? Sorry for my very low understanding of legal issues.
I would like to appeal to the Lewisham council first, Could you help me put together an appeal, are there any examples out there? |
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Sun, 17 Nov 2019 - 20:57
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
It's not a question of whether you would like you, you have to make representations to the council in the first instance. At the moment we're just discussing the best strategy so give us a few days, the discount does not expire until 26 November.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 17 Nov 2019 - 21:22
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 8 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,368 |
It's not a question of whether you would like you, you have to make representations to the council in the first instance. At the moment we're just discussing the best strategy so give us a few days, the discount does not expire until 26 November. Agree, looking forward to hearing more ideas on this. In the meantime, I've put together a statement which you may argue of its usefulness, but I still would like to share to see if any part of this could be of any use when appealing. Dear Sirs, I had been to a road which I was totally unfamiliar, trying to access a side road to park my car. As the weather was quite rainy, it can also be seen in the video footage, I missed the last exit before entering the road restricted for specific types of vehicles. I only realised I am entering in a bus lane when I am literally in, I couldn't see another lane to change to as one would do when accidentally entering into a bus lane. However, in this case, there was not a second lane for me to switch. Had there been a sign to tell drivers to turn left (to Albion Way) before entering the part of the road where this restricted road starts ahead, I would definitely turn left to avoid but there wasn't any sign where I could make my final escape before getting caught in the middle of the bus lane. When one realises he/she is entering a bus lane after missing the Albion Way exit, then there is no other way than to continue on the route as u-turn and reversing is not a best practice and safe to do so on the high st. At the moment, without those signs which would warn drivers to turn left to Albion Way which is the only option to avoid the restricted way, the current road setup looks to be a trap for drivers not familiar to the area. For this reason, I urge the council to put clearer signs to direct drivers to Albion Way when driven up to that point and I kindly request you to cancel this PCN as per the above reasons. |
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Sun, 24 Nov 2019 - 20:46
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 8 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,368 |
Hi guys,
I understand from the PCN that the discount ends tomorrow as it says beginning with the date of the letter which was 12th of November. Any more inputs for my appeal to Lewisham Council? This post has been edited by Cesur: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 - 20:47 |
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Sun, 24 Nov 2019 - 20:55
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
To be honest the signage is pants but an adjudicator might find it is substantially compliant. However your proposed challenge is very reasonable and Lewisham normally re-offers the discount anyway, so I think it's worth a shot. Also, the London bus lane process is rather long-winded which gives you a better chance of the council making a mistake along the way.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 18:57
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 8 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,368 |
Lewisham have responded to my challenge, please see below their response.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11u4wEJquy_...iew?usp=sharing Any suggestions taking it to the adjudicators? |
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Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 19:16
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Well you can't go to the adjudicator yet. As the letter explains, you'd need to wait for the Enforcement Notice and make a further representation to the council first. The council might re-offer the discount again if you challenge the Enforcement Notice promptly, but this is not guaranteed.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 22:16
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 8 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,368 |
I've found this case which looks quite similar, read some of it but not sure what percent of it relates to the above one.
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...ator%202010.pdf |
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Fri, 6 Dec 2019 - 22:57
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I've found this case which looks quite similar, read some of it but not sure what percent of it relates to the above one. https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...ator%202010.pdf none of it is relevant to your case -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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