Medical emergency, Stopping to take patient to surgery |
Medical emergency, Stopping to take patient to surgery |
Thu, 17 Oct 2019 - 21:19
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 15 Oct 2019 From: South London Member No.: 106,185 |
In early September, my young boy developed an infected swelling on his foot, possibly from a spider bite. He found it too painful to walk. We called our GP Surgery and got an emergency appointment to come in straight away at 11h. We arrived about 10 minutes early
My wife and I took our son to the surgery and, as there is no parking and our little boy could not walk without pain, I stopped the car in front of the surgery amongst several other vehicles on a single yellow line where it turned out, parking was prohibited at that time. I then carried him upstairs to the surgery where I checked him in at reception I then returned to the car a few short minutes later to move the car. However, the CEO was in the middle of preparing the PCN, Contravention 01. He must have arrived just after I took my son out of the rear seat as I was only gone about 6-7 minutes I politely explained the situation to him. He replied that he could not stop issuing a ticket once he had started. He counselled me to contact Lambeth Parking and explain the medical emergency and the ticket would be cancelled. The CEO then advised me also to leave the car in situ, as it was already ticketed, so that we could go to the pharmacy across from the surgery to pick up any medicines needed I followed his advice. I made an informal appeal to Lambeth. I enclose the doctor’s report of my son’s appointment clearly showing the times which confirmed the facts. I stated that I believed that my need to temporarily stop the car in front of the surgery door so that I could carry my son to the surgery was a compelling reason to cancel this PCN. There were no other parking options. I requested that my Council cancel this PCN on this occasion due to the mitigating circumstances outlined above The appeal was rejected stating only that the 'PCN was issued correctly and that there are no grounds for cancelling it' What parent would not have done his best to get his child to a doctor under these circumstances? I worry that if I make an informal appeal and lose, the fine doubles and the Tribunal cannot consider mitigation Any suggestions -------------------- Gumph
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Thu, 17 Oct 2019 - 21:19
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Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 14:47
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 719 Joined: 19 Dec 2017 Member No.: 95,615 |
We can help you win this, but to do this we will need to take apart the NTO line by line and highlight it's faults. We can't do this without seeing it!
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Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 23:53
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 15 Oct 2019 From: South London Member No.: 106,185 |
NTO redacted
https://ibb.co/ft9pvBw -------------------- Gumph
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Sun, 1 Dec 2019 - 16:37
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 15 Oct 2019 From: South London Member No.: 106,185 |
It seems that the back side of the NTO did not scan. However, it is a standard, generic Lambeth page How to Challenge the PCN, nothing specific to my situation, nothing untoward
-------------------- Gumph
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Sun, 1 Dec 2019 - 17:18
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,308 Joined: 9 May 2014 Member No.: 70,515 |
QUOTE it is a standard, generic Lambeth page Lambeth have 'form' for mistakes in small print - you need to post it here for the experts here to check... This post has been edited by John U.K.: Sun, 1 Dec 2019 - 17:21 |
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Sun, 1 Dec 2019 - 17:18
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 7,235 Joined: 5 Jan 2007 From: England Member No.: 9,919 |
It seems that the back side of the NTO did not scan. However, it is a standard, generic Lambeth page How to Challenge the PCN, nothing specific to my situation, nothing untoward The point in seeing the actual paperwork is for the experts to scan it for mistakes in the wording that may give you an argument for appeal. Hence the numerous requests to see it |
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Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 13:00
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 15 Oct 2019 From: South London Member No.: 106,185 |
Hopefully, this will do it. It seems like the back side of the NTO is stock, unchanging, already examined. Nonetheless, thank you
https://ibb.co/Xs2t5k9 Sorry, it did it again. When I upload to ibb, it seems to chop the second page -------------------- Gumph
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Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 13:12
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 15 Oct 2019 From: South London Member No.: 106,185 |
https://ibb.co/k8fKZTT -NTO
https://ibb.co/MnkZc3H -reverse side ibb doesn't seem to upload pdf; jpg do not seem to capture multiple pages I must submit my formal appeal before Thursday 5/12 Thank you -------------------- Gumph
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Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 17:13
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I think assisted alighting is your strongest ground. Are there any reasons why your wife could not have carried your son?
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 22:39
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 15 Oct 2019 From: South London Member No.: 106,185 |
He would have been too heavy for her. Are we really splitting hairs like this?
Could you please expand on 'assisted alighting'. Is there a written exemption in the parking code for this? Which and where? Thanks -------------------- Gumph
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Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 22:43
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 7,235 Joined: 5 Jan 2007 From: England Member No.: 9,919 |
They are questions the adjudicator may ask so you are in effect being prepared.
Assisted alighting is basically an exemption for passengers who cannot alight without help, very young, old, dissabled, infirm etc. As your son had a wound to his foot he would need assistance ie to be carried, to get to the respective part of the doctors/hospital. If he was to heavy for your wife to do this it became ness for you to do this. Being the only driver this required you to leave the vehicle. This post has been edited by mickR: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 22:48 |
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Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 14:24
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
As mickR mentions, you are allowed to stop on a single or double yellow line for the purpose of allowing passengers to alight from your vehicle. If your son could not have alighted without your assistance, then it was necessary for you to assist him and therefore it was necessary for your to leave the vehicle, hence the exemption is engaged. Based on this, the alleged contravention did not occur.
I would recommend you draft a formal representation based on this and put it on here for review before sending it to the council. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 14:55
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 15 Oct 2019 From: South London Member No.: 106,185 |
I agree with the above. It is common sense, it is common humanity
Does the concept of 'assisted alighting' exist in a statute that I could reference? Or perhaps a previous adjudicator decision that I could quote? As it stands now, it seems to be just a concept that makes sense but does not bind a Council or arbitrator. It seems that the contravention did take place unless there is an accepted exemption, ideally written in the codes that govern parking. If so, the alleged contravention did not occur; if not, it may be down to mitigation which an adjudicator, at the net stage, is, apparently, not allowed to consider -------------------- Gumph
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Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 15:03
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 7,235 Joined: 5 Jan 2007 From: England Member No.: 9,919 |
It is not a consept, both i and CP have already stated Assisted alighting is an exemtion if criteria is met. In your circumstance it appears so. Try seaching the tribunal key cases for assisted alighting.
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Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 22:29
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Alighting is allowed because yellow lines convey a waiting restriction, rather than a "no stopping". The tribunals have accepted for decades that alighting does not amount to waiting so stopping for such a purpose is not "waiting" for the purposes of the regulations. It's trite law, i.e. so well known that does not require citation of any authority, but there will be key cases on the point on the tribunal website if you have a look.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 3 Dec 2019 - 22:41
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 15 Oct 2019 From: South London Member No.: 106,185 |
Thank you for your help
I found only one category under Key Cases that seems to apply, Alighting. Within, there is only one case cited. It is worthy and clearly refers to 'boarding/alighting exemption' which seems apt for my situation I wish there were more examples of this type of case and this type of exemption -------------------- Gumph
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Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 00:37
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Post a draft on here before sending anything. Part of the reason why there aren't many cases on this point is that this concept is accepted / taken for granted by the tribunal, indeed I can't think of a single case where a council has even disputed this.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 01:03
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 7,235 Joined: 5 Jan 2007 From: England Member No.: 9,919 |
use the search bar in the pepipoo header just search for assisted alighting. there are numerous threads where you may find other tribunal cases mentioned.
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Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 11:38
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#38
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Member Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 15 Oct 2019 From: South London Member No.: 106,185 |
To be submitted this evening. I will search Pepipoo for more cases and appreciate any comments on my draft formal appeal. Thank you
I wish to appeal this PCN. The contravention did not occur. I believe that there is a medical emergency exemption that applies On 4/9/19 my son developed an infected swelling on his foot, possibly from a spider bite. He found it too painful to walk. We called our GP Surgery on Gracefield Gardens, SW16 and were given an emergency appointment to come in straight away at 11h. We arrived about 10.47-.48h My wife and I took our son to the surgery and, as there is no dedicated parking anywhere near, our little boy could not walk without pain, and, so, I stopped the car in front of the surgery amongst several other vehicles to make the distance as short as possible. I then carried him upstairs to the surgery where I checked him in at reception. The car blocked nothing I then returned as soon as possible to move the car, about 10.54-55. A CEO was taking photos and in the middle of preparing the PCN. He must have arrived just after I took my son out of the rear seat as I was only gone about 7-9 minutes. Had the CEO arrived a minute earlier, he would have witnessed me assisting my child to alight I politely explained the situation to him. He replied that he could not stop issuing a ticket once he had started. He counselled me to contact Lambeth Parking and explain the medical emergency. I am following his advice I enclose the doctor’s report of my son’s appointment. It was fortunate that we brought him to the surgery as he had an infection that was rising out of his foot and towards his knee. He was immediately put on antibiotics. The CEO advised me also to leave the car in situ, as it was already ticketed, so that we could go to the Day Lewis pharmacy across from the surgery I believe that my need to temporarily stop the car in front of the surgery door so that I could carry my son to the surgery is compelling reason to cancel this PCN. I was not parking, as demonstrated by my immediate return to the car. I believe that an assisted alighting exemption applies There were no other parking available and my ability to carry my son any further than I did was limited I am a long-term Lambeth resident. I am a member of the Safer Neighbourhood Panel for Knight’s Hill. We meet regularly with the police to discuss police issues in the area. I certainly do not support illegal and inconsiderate parking. However, as a taxpayer, I do not want the Council to pursue this sort of situation, a parent who is assisting his injured children to get to a doctor. This is not a good use of resources As regards to the CEO not stopping entering data into his device when I returned to the car, this may be an example of procedural impropriety. The PCN had not yet been printed. The same procedural impropriety might apply to the CEO’s instructions to leave the car ticketed on the single yellow line whilst I went to the pharmacy for my son’s antibiotics If my appeal does not technically stand on the above 2 reasons, I think that there is an overwhelming case to cancel the ticket on grounds of mitigation. What parent would not have done his best to get his child to a doctor under these circumstances? I respectfully request that my Council cancel this PCN on this occasion due to the reasons and circumstances outlined above I could add this: I refer the Council to a similar Key Case: London Borough of Southwark v Mrs D Wanambwa Case Reference 2030235349 PCN SO75047775 -------------------- Gumph
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Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 12:08
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#39
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Member Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 15 Oct 2019 From: South London Member No.: 106,185 |
I am searching the 'assisted alighting' on the Pepipoo site. Is there any point in quoting cases outside of the London Tribunal's jurisdiction? So far, most discussions seem to involve school drop-offs
Would the CEO have noted our conversation? If so, my return, request to stop proceeding with writing the PCN, his advice to leave the already-ticketed vehicle whilst going to the pharmacy would all be noted. How would I can access to those notes at the informal appeal stage? -------------------- Gumph
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Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 12:16
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#40
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Member Group: Members Posts: 634 Joined: 8 Dec 2012 Member No.: 58,778 |
I would drop the bit about leaving the car in situ.
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