Order for recovery of unpaid penalty charge |
Order for recovery of unpaid penalty charge |
Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 15:41
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 675 Joined: 26 Aug 2009 Member No.: 31,529 |
I have received a court notice regarding an unpaid parking fine.
I sold the car to a garage, who obviously sold it onto a third party who didn't register the transfer of ownership. When the original PCN came through (July 2018) I took it to the garage, and they told me they would contact the buyer to deal with it. IIRC I paid the PCN and the garage refunded me the money. I heard nothing since. I don't have any evidence that I paid the PCN (don't have credit card statements that far back). I will go back to the garage tomorrow, but what should I be doing? Should I e-mail the courts, the local authority, both? I tried telephoning and all there is, is an automated answering system that doesn't seem to connect you to a human being. The statement about possessions being removed; is this a likely threat or would it only happen if there was a court case against me and I then refused to pay? Thanking you in advance. This post has been edited by I-LOV-MONEY: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 15:44 -------------------- I thank you for reading this message.
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Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 15:41
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Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 16:20
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 29,280 Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Member No.: 16,671 |
You don't phone or contact anyone.
I'm sure you've read the back? I don't have any evidence that I paid the PCN (don't have credit card statements that far back). You'll need it eventually and that just sounds like giving up too easily? No online statements? Contacted the card co.? -------------------- |
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Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 16:26
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 675 Joined: 26 Aug 2009 Member No.: 31,529 |
If the contravention was July 2018, when would I have received the PCN demand for payment? I can check my statements online, so I can look a couple of months beyond that.
Is it okay to contact the garage to contact the third party to see that he finally registered change of ownership? -------------------- I thank you for reading this message.
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Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 16:34
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
WHy does that matter?
Surely the issue is that you paid the PCN directly, and this was not recorded? YOU know when you got the PCN, so just check all your stateemnts. Not tricky! |
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Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 16:38
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 675 Joined: 26 Aug 2009 Member No.: 31,529 |
I don't remember actually when I received the PCN. Obviously some time after July, but that is all. I suppose it is a matter of checking all my credit card statements up to say, December?
-------------------- I thank you for reading this message.
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Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 19:21
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I don't remember actually when I received the PCN. Obviously some time after July, but that is all. I suppose it is a matter of checking all my credit card statements up to say, December? To be honest if you have online statements this should take you all of 5-10 minutes. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 00:11
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 675 Joined: 26 Aug 2009 Member No.: 31,529 |
Having gone through my two credit card statements and bank statements up till the end of January 2019 (I am sure it was actually paid last year), I can't find it. I presume it would show the creditor L B Ealing? Could it be anything else? Is there any possibility that I made the payment and it wasn't processed and if so, how do I prove it?
This post has been edited by I-LOV-MONEY: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 00:13 -------------------- I thank you for reading this message.
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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 11:15
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,007 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Just search by amount. The penalty would have been with £55 or £110, depending on whether you missed the discount period. I'm sure you don't have that many charges that happen to be exactly £55.00 or £110.00. Also check bank statements, you might have paid on a debit card.
If you have no evidence of payment anywhere, it might be that you thought you had paid but for whatever reason you never got round to it or it slipped your mind or something, in which case you need to pay the Order for Recovery. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 11:27
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,156 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
???
When the original PCN came through (July 2018) ?... Was this a postal PCN? Was the contravention parking related? If so, then the options were for you to pay or make reps, nothing to do with the garage. You say you paid. As the authority have issued an OfR they must have issued a charge certificate between the PCN and OfR. And you would have received this, but you make no mention. So before you get fixed on hunting down payments, you must fill in the procedural elements. PCN for **** contravention (parking, moving traffic, bus lane..) Charge certificate received on *******, what did you do? At present this has nohing to do with the garage. This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 11:28 |
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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 13:35
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 675 Joined: 26 Aug 2009 Member No.: 31,529 |
Okay, 'mystery' solved. I sold the car on 3 June 2018 and the parking contravention was 19 July 2018 (not my fault, guv!). Around the same time there was also an unpaid TfL Congestion Charge payment. It was that which I paid (and found the cc payment record); the garage refunded it to me and said they would get the money from the person who bought the car.
When I received it, I gave the details of the parking contravention to the garage to pass onto the third party. He obviously didn't bother to deal with it. I spoke to the garage this morning, and they are going to give me the guy's details on Monday, when they have checked their records. However, do I need to complete the 'Statement of truth' ? My reason for non-payment is not one of the four grounds to make a statement on form TE9. What if the guy still doesn't pay? Is there anyway I can check that he did sign the transfer of ownership / keeper and on what date? Thanks. This post has been edited by I-LOV-MONEY: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 13:35 -------------------- I thank you for reading this message.
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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 14:08
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 29,280 Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Member No.: 16,671 |
Not good news.
When I received it, I gave the details of the parking contravention to the garage to pass onto the third party. He obviously didn't bother to deal with it. Of course didn't (and couldn't!); it was addressed to YOU ! You failed to respond to it, on the ground of not being the owner. I can't see you've any choice but to pay. -------------------- |
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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 15:09
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,156 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
+1
And you've still not answered the questions: 1. The type of PCN; 2. The type of contravention e.g. parking etc. Because this determines the rest of the procedure...; 3. Whether you received further notices from the authority, if so what? These must be answered otherwise you should pay before matters get completely out of hand. |
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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 15:12
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 29,280 Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Member No.: 16,671 |
2. The type of contravention e.g. parking etc. Because this determines the rest of the procedure...; Can only be parking. -------------------- |
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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 16:51
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
2. The type of contravention e.g. parking etc. Because this determines the rest of the procedure...; Can only be parking. Given WS and not SD, yup. I would hazard a guess that it was a TFL code 46 via CCTV but it is a guess. Whatever it was the OP is now in the frame for best part of 200 notes for want of reading and correctly actioning the notice they had. AFAIK, there is no lawful means via laid down procedure to escape this even though the original contravention was not you. Best I got to offer is a written plea to the authority, explaining your errors, very apologetic and ask that they consider even at this late date. You must name the new owner and provide proof of sale. No guarantees that the authority will accept, they do not have to. But can if you can persuade them. |
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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 16:59
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 675 Joined: 26 Aug 2009 Member No.: 31,529 |
1. The type of PCN; 2. The type of contravention e.g. parking etc. Because this determines the rest of the procedure...; 3. Whether you received further notices from the authority, if so what? These must be answered otherwise you should pay before matters get completely out of hand. It was an outstanding parking ticket. I presume it was Notice to Owner, but can't remember. Unfortunately I gave all the original correspondence to the garage as they would pass it onto the third (fourth?!) party to pay. Since that time, I have not received any further correspondence from the Council, until yesterday.
QUOTE (DancingDad) Given WS and not SD, yup. I would hazard a guess that it was a TFL code 46 via CCTV but it is a guess. Whatever it was the OP is now in the frame for best part of 200 notes for want of reading and correctly actioning the notice they had. AFAIK, there is no lawful means via laid down procedure to escape this even though the original contravention was not you. Best I got to offer is a written plea to the authority, explaining your errors, very apologetic and ask that they consider even at this late date. You must name the new owner and provide proof of sale. No guarantees that the authority will accept, they do not have to. But can if you can persuade them. WS? SD? Hopefully I will get the name and address of the buyer on Monday. -------------------- I thank you for reading this message.
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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 17:02
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
It's Ealing. Go to council site and look up status of PCN.
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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 17:33
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 29,280 Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Member No.: 16,671 |
Given WS and not SD, yup. I would hazard a guess that it was a TFL code 46 via CCTV but it is a guess. We already know it's Ealing and amount can only be parking. Sorry to be a clever-dicky. [*]If I were to reluctantly pay, would I be able to sue the owner in the Small Claims Court if necessary? For your failure to act in line with legislation? Being the only person who could have responded to the NtO [*]If it is paid, would there be any record on my credit reference or any other such database? No. [*]Finally, I ask again, can I check that he made the transfer of ownership / keeper and the date? Otherwise he could continually rack up parking tickets in my name.[/list] DVLA. Finally, I ask again, can I check that he made the transfer of ownership / keeper and the date? Otherwise he could continually rack up parking tickets in my name. DVLA. You should notify DVLA and check you get an acknowledgement. Speeding tickets are possible - and worse. -------------------- |
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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 19:01
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
@ Neil
I don't mind you being a clever dickie And thanks for correcting my oversight. @ I-lov-money Not a hope of getting this back from small claims. Most you could hope for is the original full penalty amount but as Neil says, there would be very strong arguments that you brought this on yourself by ignoring statutory procedure. And the bit that is often in bold on NTOs, Do Not Pass this On To the Driver. At the moment it is not even certain that the new owner was aware of the NTO. |
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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 23:00
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,156 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
Finally, I ask again, can I check that he made the transfer of ownership / keeper and the date? Otherwise he could continually rack up parking tickets in my name.
Let him. But this time if you received a postal PCN or NTO you would action it because you know better. 'I was not the owner'. Job done. No problem. (you would have notified DVLA that you were not the owner, wouldn't you). Your problem is that you did not action the PCN/NTO correctly. This is no-one's fault but yours, sorry if this seems harsh. Anyway, you have an OfR, but no means of submitting a WS. So, what to do? The authority may still consider reps if you make them promptly and smartly. I suggest you do. |
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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 00:08
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 675 Joined: 26 Aug 2009 Member No.: 31,529 |
Thank you all for your help. We all learn by our mistakes!
What if I was to pay it, and then ask the guy to refund me the money (I can hope he is honorable) then case closed? I will check with DVLA on Monday the current keeper of the vehicle (will they give me this information over the phone?) -------------------- I thank you for reading this message.
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