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UK Car Park Management
MJ85
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 11:55
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Hi all, wonder if you can help.

Are these PCNs genuine and need to be paid or are they not enforceable?

Please let me know as soon as possible.

Thanks all and keep up the good work.

This post has been edited by MJ85: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 14:15
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post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 11:55
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ostell
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 17:42
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You are confusing the issue with multiple cases. One Case one thread.

Yes the dates are applicable but in this case it's:

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc


If you want to continue this for the other car then start another thread please so things don't get confusing.
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MJ85
post Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 19:15
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Thank you very much
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MJ85
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 09:25
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Hi all

The keeper of the vehicle has now received the attached letter following posting the response as suggested. What should be done in response to this letter?

Thank for all your continued help.
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cabbyman
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 10:51
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When did you send your response to them? Was it exactly as drafted by Ostell?


--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
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MJ85
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 16:37
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 10:51) *
When did you send your response to them? Was it exactly as drafted by Ostell?


It was sent mid-late November using Ostell's draft exactly
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cabbyman
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 18:49
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How 'mid-late November?' Which Ostell draft - Post #13 or post #21?

You will have had a maximum of 28 days to appeal and, subsequently, be able to defend 'with clean hands. The date that you sent your appeal is crucial given the timescale you have indicated.


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Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
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MJ85
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 10:10
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 18:49) *
How 'mid-late November?' Which Ostell draft - Post #13 or post #21?

You will have had a maximum of 28 days to appeal and, subsequently, be able to defend 'with clean hands. The date that you sent your appeal is crucial given the timescale you have indicated.


Letter was dated 14th November but posted probably on 16th November. Post #13 was used for this.
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cabbyman
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 12:23
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OK.

Subject to the opinions of others, I would respond with:

Dear sirs,

ref xxxx

I am in receipt of your 'Formal Demand.'

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not liable for this charge. You were informed of this in my letter of 14th November, copy enclosed, and have ignored my demand to cease processing my personal details.

I now require you to confirm within 7 days of the date of this letter that you have destroyed all records you hold for me or my vehicle. Your failure in this regard will be immediately reported to the ICO and will be brought to the attention of the court in a costs application should we get to that point.

Please be assured that I will prevail in this matter.

Love and kisses.


I seem to recall a recent court win against UK-CPM but can't find it. If anyone is able to link it, it may contain some useful nuggets to remind them of their folly.

Await the opinions of others.


--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
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MJ85
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 23:48
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Thanks. Do others agree with this response?
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Albert Ross
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 01:20
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For Hire Vehicles:
A valid (ANPR) Notice can take up 63 days to arrive. Although it will only be valid if Notice to hirer is delivered within the 21 days of PPC receiving a statement from the hire company.

It also has to be accompanied by a copy of relevant sections of the Lease Agreement.

The letter received on the 31/12 may be their attempt at a notice to hirer.
But that also lacks the Hirer liability sectons of the lease agreement? and as it is dated 31/12 then it is beyond the limit to hold the hirer liable for the charge.

So a valid (ANPR) Notice can take up 63 days to arrive. Although it will only be valid if Notice to hirer is delivered within the 21 days of PPC receiving a statement from the hire company.


Dear sirs,

ref xxxx

I am in receipt of your 'Formal Demand.'

The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 allows for the recovery of Parking charges from the Keeper if the identity of the driver is unknown.
Schedule Four shows the actions that must be complied with for the transfer of such a liability.
Specifically for Hire Vehicles there is an extension of time to comply with the onerous task for identifying the Hirer and for the re-issue of a copy of the Notice to Keeper with a Notice to Hirer and other documents.
The lack of specified documents within the limits as set out in paragraph(s) 13 and 14 of Schedule Four removes any ability for you to transfer that liability to me.

For the avoidance of doubt, I was not the driver; ergo, I am not liable for this charge.
Please be assured that I shall prevail in this matter.

Love and kisses.

Also.
Await the opinions of others.


--------------------
The owl of Minerva spreads its wings only with the falling of the dusk.
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MJ85
post Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 10:08
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Thank you.

The vehicle in question is not a hire vehicle so would cabbyman's suggestion be good to use in this case?
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ostell
post Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 10:28
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Send Cabbymans response. First class mail with free certificate of posting from a post office.

Note that letter is stating, in the last paragraph, that the driver is liable for the charge.

Add to Cabbymans response a statement stating that you acknowledge receipt of their letter and confirm that you agree with their statement in that last paragraph that the driver remains liable for this alleged chargel

This post has been edited by ostell: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 10:56
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bearclaw
post Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 10:29
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I thought you said there was a leasing company that was the keeper?

As such it is still hired - even if it's not a short term hire.
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MJ85
post Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 22:22
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QUOTE (bearclaw @ Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 10:29) *
I thought you said there was a leasing company that was the keeper?

As such it is still hired - even if it's not a short term hire.


Yes there are two cars here being discussed and as stated by another user they only wanted one case in this thread to be discussed so this will not be the hire car.

I do however have an update on the hire car situation which I will post separately.

Thank you for all your responses. I will keep you updated.
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MJ85
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 12:45
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Hi all.

After using cabbyman's reply the attached letter from CPM has been received.

What should be done in response?
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Jlc
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 12:51
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Do not go near the non-standard appeal. You have to pay for it!

This can only be resolved in your favour at court.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Glacier2
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 12:51
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Nothing. File that letter away. There is no point appealing to the IAS as you will most certainly lose.

Wait for a compliant letter before claim. Then come back here for advice.
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MJ85
post Sat, 9 Feb 2019 - 22:07
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Thanks. Will update you once anything more is received.
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