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ParkingEye pcn - Scotland, It wasn't me guv . . .
plastic bus driv...
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 14:45
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I'm a long time lurker, so very excited to receive my first PCN from ParkingEye, for overstaying at a Morrisons car park in Scotland (I'm also a Scottish resident). They're inviting me to give them £100, or a mere £60 if I'm quick.

Obviously I'd love to pay, however, as I'm only the registered keeper and wasn't the driver (and can easily prove I was elsewhere if required) I don't believe I've entered into a contract with them.

Being in Scotland I've read the discussion about whether to ignore or reply, and decided I'd prefer to reply, so as to have a paperwork trail in the (unlikely) event they pursue it to court.

As well as a punchy email to Morrisons, pointing out how much I've spent with them in the last year and asking them to get the invoice / pcn cancelled, I was planning to sent the letter below to ParkingEye:



ParkingEye Ltd
P.O. Box 565
Chorley
PR6 6HT

xx/xx/2019

Your Ref. xxxxxx/xxxxxx
Vehicle Registration: xxxxxxx


Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of your letter dated xx/xx/2019 requesting payment of £100 from the driver of the above vehicle.

I am the registered keeper of the subject vehicle, but was not the driver at the above-referenced time / date, and have not entered into any form of contract with you.

You will be aware that Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 is not applicable in Scotland and as registered keeper I have no liability in this matter.

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication from you on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.



Yours etc,



Before I fire it off, is there anything obvious I should add (or remove?)

This post has been edited by plastic bus driver: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 14:59
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post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 14:45
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The Rookie
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 15:10
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What do you actually hope to achieve by sending a letter?

Tempting as it may be, as it will achieve less than two parts of naff all, I wouldn’t bother.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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StuartBu
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 15:27
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We can well understand why you think sending that letter to them is a good idea but it will do no good other than give you some satisfaction . Do you have a shredder or a DELETE button ....Use them and get on with your life . If you get any further letters from them then you could file them somewhere marked IGNORE unless it relates to COURT ( which it won't) . By replying in any shape or form ( getting involved in correspondence ) there is a danger you give the game away as to who the driver was.

This post has been edited by StuartBu: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 16:48
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Jlc
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 15:45
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I disagree. The letter clearly states the keeper was not driving.

They'll do their thing no matter what - but I don't believe they issue claims in Scotland currently?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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StuartBu
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 16:45
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 15:45) *
I disagree. The letter clearly states the keeper was not driving.

They'll do their thing no matter what - but I don't believe they issue claims in Scotland currently?


You disagree with what ? Surely the usual advice in Scotland is to ignore and not to disclose who the driver is ...as they need this piece of info to take things further .
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Spudandros
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 18:59
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QUOTE (plastic bus driver @ Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 15:45) *
I'm a long time lurker, so very excited to receive my first PCN from ParkingEye, for overstaying at a Morrisons car park in Scotland (I'm also a Scottish resident). They're inviting me to give them £100, or a mere £60 if I'm quick.

Obviously I'd love to pay, however, as I'm only the registered keeper and wasn't the driver (and can easily prove I was elsewhere if required) I don't believe I've entered into a contract with them.

Being in Scotland I've read the discussion about whether to ignore or reply, and decided I'd prefer to reply, so as to have a paperwork trail in the (unlikely) event they pursue it to court.

As well as a punchy email to Morrisons, pointing out how much I've spent with them in the last year and asking them to get the invoice / pcn cancelled, I was planning to sent the letter below to ParkingEye


Way too long for Scotland.

Dear ParkingEye
PCN number xxxxx
I am in receipt of a Notice to Keeper you have sent. As I was not the driver of the vehicle, I no have liability for this charge. No further information will be provided and I now consider the matter closed.
Yours etc
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Redivi
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 19:02
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The main reason for the Ignore advice has always been to prevent OPs giving away any information that can be used against them

In this case I see no reason why "Not the Driver" shouldn't be used now
It shows that the OP has acted reasonably and justifies ignoring any further correspondence

Keep it short though with nothing that can be twisted or used as a distraction

ParkingEye Ltd
P.O. Box 565
Chorley
PR6 6HT

xx/xx/2019

Your Ref. xxxxxx/xxxxxx
Vehicle Registration: xxxxxxx


Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of the above Parking Notice

I am the registered keeper of the subject vehicle but was not the driver.

You will be aware that Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 does not apply in Scotland

I therefore request that the Notice is cancelled
I will note the content of any further correspondence but am unlikely to reply

Yours Faithfully

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Jlc
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 20:31
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 16:45) *
You disagree with what ?

With the advice to ignore.

Telling them the keeper wasn't driving seems sensible to me.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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plastic bus driv...
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 22:08
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Many thanks for all the advice - much appreciated.

I will go with a very short acknowledgement, as per the above suggestions. Looking forward to the subsequent threats, debt collection letters and dire warnings about my credit rating . . . tongue.gif

Will report back with any further correspondence, but I won't engage with them further unless and until they proceed with court action.
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Umkomaas
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 22:17
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Does PE's letter to you (Notice to Keeper) contain any reference to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) and/or that you as Keeper are/might be liable for the charge?

This post has been edited by Umkomaas: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 22:17
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plastic bus driv...
post Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 22:43
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None at all. The only comment was: "If you were not the driver at the time, you should tell us the name and current postal address of the driver and pass this notice to them."


I liked the word "should" rolleyes.gif
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ostell
post Sat, 2 Feb 2019 - 08:06
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That's because they can't "demand" it.
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Spudandros
post Sat, 2 Feb 2019 - 23:08
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 20:02) *
The main reason for the Ignore advice has always been to prevent OPs giving away any information that can be used against them

In this case I see no reason why "Not the Driver" shouldn't be used now
It shows that the OP has acted reasonably and justifies ignoring any further correspondence

Keep it short though with nothing that can be twisted or used as a distraction

ParkingEye Ltd
P.O. Box 565
Chorley
PR6 6HT

xx/xx/2019

Your Ref. xxxxxx/xxxxxx
Vehicle Registration: xxxxxxx


Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of the above Parking Notice

I am the registered keeper of the subject vehicle but was not the driver.

You will be aware that Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 does not apply in Scotland

I therefore request that the Notice is cancelled
I will note the content of any further correspondence but am unlikely to reply

Yours Faithfully


I agree that they should say they weren't the driver, but I wouldn't bother to mention PoFA as has about as much relevance to Scots law as French legislation.

QUOTE (Redivi @ Fri, 1 Feb 2019 - 20:02) *
The main reason for the Ignore advice has always been to prevent OPs giving away any information that can be used against them

In this case I see no reason why "Not the Driver" shouldn't be used now
It shows that the OP has acted reasonably and justifies ignoring any further correspondence

Keep it short though with nothing that can be twisted or used as a distraction

ParkingEye Ltd
P.O. Box 565
Chorley
PR6 6HT

xx/xx/2019

Your Ref. xxxxxx/xxxxxx
Vehicle Registration: xxxxxxx


Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of the above Parking Notice

I am the registered keeper of the subject vehicle but was not the driver.

You will be aware that Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 does not apply in Scotland

I therefore request that the Notice is cancelled
I will note the content of any further correspondence but am unlikely to reply

Yours Faithfully


I agree that they should say they weren't the driver, but I wouldn't bother to mention PoFA as has about as much relevance to Scots law as French legislation.
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Redivi
post Sun, 3 Feb 2019 - 09:20
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I would include it

It sends the clear message that OP knows that ParkingEye can't recover payment from him and he isn't going to be concerned by a few debt collector letters

This post has been edited by Redivi: Sun, 3 Feb 2019 - 09:20
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plastic bus driv...
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 10:44
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And a happy ending . . .

I sent a polite email to Morrisons, pointing out how much I spend with them, and requesting that the PCN be cancelled. They sent an initial acknowledgement within 24hrs, and another email a few days later confirming they had instructed PE to cancel.


Not a word from PE themselves, but their website now shows my PCN as cancelled and £0.00 owing. Screen-shot duly taken, and I will retain all correspondence for 5 years, just in case of any 'misunderstandings' . . .


A big thank you for all the advice on here, very much appreciated

This post has been edited by plastic bus driver: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 10:45
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Umkomaas
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 11:22
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QUOTE (plastic bus driver @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 10:44) *
And a happy ending . . .

I sent a polite email to Morrisons, pointing out how much I spend with them, and requesting that the PCN be cancelled. They sent an initial acknowledgement within 24hrs, and another email a few days later confirming they had instructed PE to cancel.


Not a word from PE themselves, but their website now shows my PCN as cancelled and £0.00 owing. Screen-shot duly taken, and I will retain all correspondence for 5 years, just in case of any 'misunderstandings' . . .


A big thank you for all the advice on here, very much appreciated

Usually works with Morrison's - nice one. They seem to have the attitude that whilst they don't like having their car parks abused, they are even more not prepared to see any of their genuine customers being abused by a third party.

PE are generally efficient in confirming a cancellation in writing - about 7-10 days afterwards.
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