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Rules for requesting photo evidence and timing
milleman
post Tue, 2 Jan 2007 - 21:27
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Hi Guys,

Need a little help understanding the 14 day rule for the 1st NIP. Got flashed by a Truvelo on the A45 at Ryton (be warned there are about 6 new ones near the Peugeot factory and they are well hidden, behind signs, hidden by a flyover, just round a bend etc), any way, I was driving a company pool car and flashed for 60 in a 50 on the 7th December, the NIP was sent to my company and is dated 21st December, sent first class, which on my counting means it was posted on the 14th day, and even if the Post Office managed to deliver the next day would be outside of the 14 day window, any advice?

Thanks
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post Tue, 2 Jan 2007 - 21:27
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andy_foster
post Tue, 2 Jan 2007 - 21:34
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Are "the company" (at the address the NIP was sent to) the Registered Keepers (as per the V5C)?
Is the vehicle leased (the tax disc holder is often a clue)?
When was the vehicle registered (what is the date after the DocRef at the bottom of the V5C?


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milleman
post Tue, 2 Jan 2007 - 22:42
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Yes, the company are the registered keeper, the transport manager took great pleasure in handing me the NIP today.
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andy_foster
post Wed, 3 Jan 2007 - 00:07
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Perhaps you should refrain from taking great pleasure in pointing out that the NIP clealry states that it is to be completed by the addressee only and not passed on to the driver.
If you haven't received a NIP/s.172 you are not legally obliged to do anything with it (e.g. name the driver).


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Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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milleman
post Wed, 3 Jan 2007 - 07:09
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So I should get the Transport guy to respond, should I get him to reject it on the 14 day rule, (assuming I can persuade him to do it)
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The Rookie
post Wed, 3 Jan 2007 - 12:34
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please tell us the day you were 'flashed' by the TRUVELO (not gatso there!)...as we only have your calculation to go on.....you can just keep the NIP (your under no obligation to do anything) or get the manager to reply using the RAC letter, or get him to reply normally...if you don't like the guy hang onto it and await him getting a reminder!

Simon


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milleman
post Wed, 3 Jan 2007 - 17:54
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Hi

Can someone give me an exact understanding of the 14 day rule. Offence was 7th December, NIP datd 21st December so 14 days, add 1 day for 1st class post makes it 15 days, so has it timed out as cannot be deemed to be served within 14 days, or is the posting dating taken as the serving date, any statute or case law I can put in a letter, and do I have to fill out the NIP or just return with a covering letter?

Thanks
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firefly
post Wed, 3 Jan 2007 - 19:30
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QUOTE (milleman @ Wed, 3 Jan 2007 - 17:54) *
Can someone give me an exact understanding of the 14 day rule.

If you want an exact understanding of the 14-day rule then check out this post and the attachment on the end of it.

As for a template letter, this link is a good place to start.


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husky
post Fri, 5 Jan 2007 - 10:46
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QUOTE (milleman @ Wed, 3 Jan 2007 - 17:54) *
Hi

Can someone give me an exact understanding of the 14 day rule. Offence was 7th December, NIP datd 21st December so 14 days, add 1 day for 1st class post makes it 15 days, so has it timed out as cannot be deemed to be served within 14 days, or is the posting dating taken as the serving date, any statute or case law I can put in a letter, and do I have to fill out the NIP or just return with a covering letter?

Thanks


I got a PCN by post dated after 14 days. I appealed and they cancelled it within a week a so.
Bellow is the council's response:

"Thanks you for your email.
I have checked our records and confirm that the PCN was issued after more than 14 days of the contravention occurring. This occurred due to a delay in receiving details from the DVLA and having to follow our request up with them. Whilst some flexibility exists concerning the issue of a PCN where the cause is due to third party delays, I am prepared to exercise discretion on this occasion and cancel this fine."


However I got another 4 PCNs from a different council (all dated late).
I've appealed 1 so far. Bellow is their reply:

"In your appeal you state that the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) must be sent within 14 days of the contravention. However, the Act that you quote does not relate to the above and for your information PCN's can be dated within 28 days of the contravention. Accordingly, the above remains due and payable."

Actually waiting for NTO.

With regards to the other 3 PCNs, I am going to appeal next week. Will keep you informed.

The letter I used is bellow:

Dear Sir / Madam

I would like to appeal to the above Penalty Charge Notice on the grounds that it is not valid.

We received a ticket for “loading/unloading in a restricted street” caught on CCTV in XXXXX Road, Post Code on XX/XX/2006 but the notice is not dated until XX/XX/2006.

Under the provisions of the London Local Authorities Act 1996 (as amended) part 2, 9 (b), the PCN has to be dated within 14 days of the alleged offence.

I therefore request that this Penalty Charge is cancelled.

Kind Regards,

husky
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Rallyman72
post Fri, 5 Jan 2007 - 12:30
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QUOTE (husky @ Fri, 5 Jan 2007 - 10:46) *
QUOTE (milleman @ Wed, 3 Jan 2007 - 17:54) *
Hi

Can someone give me an exact understanding of the 14 day rule. Offence was 7th December, NIP datd 21st December so 14 days, add 1 day for 1st class post makes it 15 days, so has it timed out as cannot be deemed to be served within 14 days, or is the posting dating taken as the serving date, any statute or case law I can put in a letter, and do I have to fill out the NIP or just return with a covering letter?

Thanks


I got a PCN by post dated after 14 days. I appealed and they cancelled it within a week a so.
Bellow is the council's response:

"Thanks you for your email.
I have checked our records and confirm that the PCN was issued after more than 14 days of the contravention occurring. This occurred due to a delay in receiving details from the DVLA and having to follow our request up with them. Whilst some flexibility exists concerning the issue of a PCN where the cause is due to third party delays, I am prepared to exercise discretion on this occasion and cancel this fine."


However I got another 4 PCNs from a different council (all dated late).
I've appealed 1 so far. Bellow is their reply:

"In your appeal you state that the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) must be sent within 14 days of the contravention. However, the Act that you quote does not relate to the above and for your information PCN's can be dated within 28 days of the contravention. Accordingly, the above remains due and payable."

Actually waiting for NTO.

With regards to the other 3 PCNs, I am going to appeal next week. Will keep you informed.

The letter I used is bellow:

Dear Sir / Madam

I would like to appeal to the above Penalty Charge Notice on the grounds that it is not valid.

We received a ticket for “loading/unloading in a restricted street” caught on CCTV in XXXXX Road, Post Code on XX/XX/2006 but the notice is not dated until XX/XX/2006.

Under the provisions of the London Local Authorities Act 1996 (as amended) part 2, 9 (b), the PCN has to be dated within 14 days of the alleged offence.

I therefore request that this Penalty Charge is cancelled.

Kind Regards,

husky
A PCN is NOT a NIP, they are totally different things. Normally a PCN not issued at the time of the contravention has to be issued, I believe, within 28 days whilst a NIP is 14 days.


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Parking tickets - council - 0, Rallyman - 1
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husky
post Fri, 5 Jan 2007 - 20:27
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QUOTE (Rallyman72 @ Fri, 5 Jan 2007 - 12:30) *
QUOTE (husky @ Fri, 5 Jan 2007 - 10:46) *
QUOTE (milleman @ Wed, 3 Jan 2007 - 17:54) *
Hi

Can someone give me an exact understanding of the 14 day rule. Offence was 7th December, NIP datd 21st December so 14 days, add 1 day for 1st class post makes it 15 days, so has it timed out as cannot be deemed to be served within 14 days, or is the posting dating taken as the serving date, any statute or case law I can put in a letter, and do I have to fill out the NIP or just return with a covering letter?

Thanks


I got a PCN by post dated after 14 days. I appealed and they cancelled it within a week a so.
Bellow is the council's response:

"Thanks you for your email.
I have checked our records and confirm that the PCN was issued after more than 14 days of the contravention occurring. This occurred due to a delay in receiving details from the DVLA and having to follow our request up with them. Whilst some flexibility exists concerning the issue of a PCN where the cause is due to third party delays, I am prepared to exercise discretion on this occasion and cancel this fine."


However I got another 4 PCNs from a different council (all dated late).
I've appealed 1 so far. Bellow is their reply:

"In your appeal you state that the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) must be sent within 14 days of the contravention. However, the Act that you quote does not relate to the above and for your information PCN's can be dated within 28 days of the contravention. Accordingly, the above remains due and payable."

Actually waiting for NTO.

With regards to the other 3 PCNs, I am going to appeal next week. Will keep you informed.

The letter I used is bellow:

Dear Sir / Madam

I would like to appeal to the above Penalty Charge Notice on the grounds that it is not valid.

We received a ticket for “loading/unloading in a restricted street” caught on CCTV in XXXXX Road, Post Code on XX/XX/2006 but the notice is not dated until XX/XX/2006.

Under the provisions of the London Local Authorities Act 1996 (as amended) part 2, 9 (b), the PCN has to be dated within 14 days of the alleged offence.

I therefore request that this Penalty Charge is cancelled.

Kind Regards,

husky
A PCN is NOT a NIP, they are totally different things. Normally a PCN not issued at the time of the contravention has to be issued, I believe, within 28 days whilst a NIP is 14 days.



Sorry it should have been posted in the "parking ticket" topic.
I am hoping you are wrong, if not then I must have been lucky to get away with the previous ticket.

I might give it a try anyway and appeal against the 1st one to see how it goes.
And if I get a notice of rejection I could still appeal to the PATAS on the grounds "loading/unloading".

Thanks for letting me know.
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kingjohn
post Sat, 6 Jan 2007 - 12:57
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QUOTE (milleman @ Tue, 2 Jan 2007 - 22:42) *
Yes, the company are the registered keeper, the transport manager took great pleasure in handing me the NIP today.



If you still haven't done anything, Id follow AFs advice and take great pleasure in ignoring the NIP which isn't addressed to you. Don't say anything and wait to see if the transport manager gets a reminder or not.

John
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milleman
post Tue, 30 Jan 2007 - 07:42
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Hi,

Working my way thru the system, got flashed 7/12 in company car, NIP served 21/12 to my employer, thought I got away with it, but Warwickshire claim the car is registered to a different address to where I am employed and the first NIP was served within a week. This has delayed it a bit, so now have final remainder served 22/1 that needs to be returned by 18/2 naming me as the driver. I assume I then wait for the NIP in my name, can I then ask for photo evidence to delay it further, there was 2 of us in the car, I can't remember who was driving and all that, the aim being to drag it past 6 months, what do I need to be aware of?

Thanks
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The Rookie
post Tue, 30 Jan 2007 - 12:27
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OK, you need your company (not you) to return their NIP as late as possible, once you get yours you have 28 days or as soon as practivable to respond, if you are gunuinly unsure of the driver at this stage, I would wait a couple of weeks and then write for photo's to 'help assist in identifing the driver' (don't ask for evidence), once you get them post here for further advice.

No-one will condone lying, however if you genuinly don't know the ID of the driver you have to be able to show you used 'reasonable dilligence' in trying to determine who it was, that is essentially menaing you have considered all avenues and followed all those reasonable to follow.

Dragging it past 6 months may take some doing, although its not impossible!

Simon


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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