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FightBack Forums _ The Flame Pit _ 80 on M6 Toll North onto M74

Posted by: NNB Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 12:17
Post #1523472

Hello all.

Last Monday (13th October) I picked up a new car down in Northampton and drove it all the way home to Glasgow. The dealer updated the V5 online and I received my new one saying I acquired the vehicle on the 11th October on Thursday morning.

As always when on motorways, I set the cruise control for 80mph from the M6 Toll going North all the way onto the M74 at Glasgow. Obviously at some stages of the journey I was doing a lot less than 80mph, for example, the 50mph roadworks sections, when the variable speed limit was 60mph and if there was someone in front of me in which case i slowed down. I observed cars and vans coming up behind me at 80mph so I moved in to let them pass, as I normally do. I didn't exceed 80mph at any point of the journey.

Now i'm starting to worry. I have been told from work colleagues after asking their advice and read a lot that I am likely to get fines through so I thought I would come on here and ask the experts, what is the chances of me getting fines through the post?

I have a clean licence at the moment, just hope it can stay that way.


Posted by: DancingDad Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 13:04
Post #1523479

As you have stated that you exceeded the general 70 (nsl) limit for a good chunk of the journey plus the notional enforcement limit of +10% + 2mph, what can we say apart from it is possible you were pinged by a fixed or mobile camera and may eventually get a notice through the post that will start the ball rolling.

Cruise Control at 80 could well put you under the 79mph notional limit for enforcement BTW.
If you are going to rely on it to keep safe (from cameras) if not legal, you need to know how accurate it is.

Whether it will happen or not is anyone's guess, TBH, as long as not on Smart Sections or through road works, I doubt anything will occur but who can say for sure.

If you are going to worry and lose sleep over this sort of thing, it may be better to stick with the speed limits.
And stop letting your workmates wind you up.

Posted by: NNB Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 13:24
Post #1523484

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 14:04) *
As you have stated that you exceeded the general 70 (nsl) limit for a good chunk of the journey plus the notional enforcement limit of +10% + 2mph, what can we say apart from it is possible you were pinged by a fixed or mobile camera and may eventually get a notice through the post that will start the ball rolling.

Cruise Control at 80 could well put you under the 79mph notional limit for enforcement BTW.
If you are going to rely on it to keep safe (from cameras) if not legal, you need to know how accurate it is.

Whether it will happen or not is anyone's guess, TBH, as long as not on Smart Sections or through road works, I doubt anything will occur but who can say for sure.

If you are going to worry and lose sleep over this sort of thing, it may be better to stick with the speed limits.
And stop letting your workmates wind you up.


Thanks for taking the time out to reply.

100% this, lesson learned.

I don't usually drive on motorways and have only driven on the M6 twice in 20 years of driving.

I'll just need to wait and see..... another week to go!


Posted by: NewJudge Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 13:29
Post #1523488

QUOTE (NNB @ Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 14:24) *
I'll just need to wait and see..... another week to go!

Is this a brand new car (i.e. first registered when you bought it)? If not, the first NIP may not go to you and if it does not you may receive your own NIP and S172 request outside fourteen days.

Posted by: NNB Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 13:35
Post #1523490

QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 14:29) *
QUOTE (NNB @ Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 14:24) *
I'll just need to wait and see..... another week to go!

Is this a brand new car (i.e. first registered when you bought it)? If not, the first NIP may not go to you and if it does not you may receive your own NIP and S172 request outside fourteen days.


No, this wasn't brand new. The car was 2 years old when I purchased it.

Also, forgot to ask, would I be considered for speed awareness, IF i do get a NIP?

Posted by: DancingDad Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 14:27
Post #1523503

QUOTE (NNB @ Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 14:35) *
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 14:29) *
QUOTE (NNB @ Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 14:24) *
I'll just need to wait and see..... another week to go!

Is this a brand new car (i.e. first registered when you bought it)? If not, the first NIP may not go to you and if it does not you may receive your own NIP and S172 request outside fourteen days.


No, this wasn't brand new. The car was 2 years old when I purchased it.

Also, forgot to ask, would I be considered for speed awareness, IF i do get a NIP?


Again we cannot say.
If one camera pinged and got you around the 80 mark then, with a clean licence, a speed awareness course offer is the most likely outcome.
But if three pinged during the course of the journey?

Re the possible notice.
Would initially be an S172 asking you to name the driver.
But with a new (to you) car only registered to you that day, changeover could see the notice going to dealer or previous owner.
Who would then reply naming you so you get your own notice.
And it all could take longer then the 14 days and is allowed to in that sort of case.

Posted by: NNB Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 14:42
Post #1523509

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 15:27) *
QUOTE (NNB @ Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 14:35) *
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 14:29) *
QUOTE (NNB @ Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 14:24) *
I'll just need to wait and see..... another week to go!

Is this a brand new car (i.e. first registered when you bought it)? If not, the first NIP may not go to you and if it does not you may receive your own NIP and S172 request outside fourteen days.


No, this wasn't brand new. The car was 2 years old when I purchased it.

Also, forgot to ask, would I be considered for speed awareness, IF i do get a NIP?


Again we cannot say.
If one camera pinged and got you around the 80 mark then, with a clean licence, a speed awareness course offer is the most likely outcome.
But if three pinged during the course of the journey?

Re the possible notice.
Would initially be an S172 asking you to name the driver.
But with a new (to you) car only registered to you that day, changeover could see the notice going to dealer or previous owner.
Who would then reply naming you so you get your own notice.
And it all could take longer then the 14 days and is allowed to in that sort of case.


That's my main concern.

The only thing that I am thinking I might be OK was the other cars and vans going past me however, I know I shouldn't be concerned about the other road users!

Posted by: DancingDad Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 14:49
Post #1523512

I can only reiterate what I have already said, IMO unlikely to even get one.
Just cannot say that it could not happen.
Or that more then one could not happen.

Posted by: NNB Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 15:01
Post #1523519

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 15:49) *
I can only reiterate what I have already said, IMO unlikely to even get one.
Just cannot say that it could not happen.
Or that more then one could not happen.


Thanks.

Also as stated above, although my cruise control is set for 80, I may have been doing less due to speedometer error.

Posted by: The Slithy Tove Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 15:49
Post #1523525

The M6 section through Cheshire that is now Smart Motorway is liberally festooned with cameras now to enforce the VSL. The M74 through Dumfries & Galloway is notorious for regularly having mobile vans on the bridges. There is no doubt you will have passed cameras. Whether 80 on the speedo is actually less than the 79 at which enforcement starts is a gamble you have made.

Posted by: NewJudge Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 16:58
Post #1523538

QUOTE (NNB @ Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 14:35) *
Also, forgot to ask, would I be considered for speed awareness, IF i do get a NIP?

Courses are usually offered for speeds up to and including (Limit + 10% +9mph) - so 86 in a 70 limit. Having points on your licence is no bar but you must not have done one (of the same type applicable) for an offence committed within three years of the current one. However they are not offered for offences which occur in Scotland.

Posted by: NNB Sun, 20 Oct 2019 - 06:56
Post #1523589

QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 16:49) *
The M6 section through Cheshire that is now Smart Motorway is liberally festooned with cameras now to enforce the VSL. The M74 through Dumfries & Galloway is notorious for regularly having mobile vans on the bridges. There is no doubt you will have passed cameras. Whether 80 on the speedo is actually less than the 79 at which enforcement starts is a gamble you have made.


Yes it was a gamble I have made. I have been reading into the accuracy of BMW speedometers and they are 3-5% out, according to the BMW forums (spent hours on these). So if the thousands of posts on the accuracy of BMW forums are true, I should be OK. Not going to count on it though!

Posted by: typefish Sun, 20 Oct 2019 - 13:11
Post #1523657

QUOTE (NNB @ Sun, 20 Oct 2019 - 07:56) *
QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 16:49) *
The M6 section through Cheshire that is now Smart Motorway is liberally festooned with cameras now to enforce the VSL. The M74 through Dumfries & Galloway is notorious for regularly having mobile vans on the bridges. There is no doubt you will have passed cameras. Whether 80 on the speedo is actually less than the 79 at which enforcement starts is a gamble you have made.


Yes it was a gamble I have made. I have been reading into the accuracy of BMW speedometers and they are 3-5% out, according to the BMW forums (spent hours on these). So if the thousands of posts on the accuracy of BMW forums are true, I should be OK. Not going to count on it though!


Having your cruise control set to 80mph on a BMW is likely to be anywhere between 77 and 78mph.

Might touch 79mph if you're going down a hill for a couple of seconds though

Posted by: DancingDad Sun, 20 Oct 2019 - 13:36
Post #1523666

QUOTE (typefish @ Sun, 20 Oct 2019 - 14:11) *
……….
Having your cruise control set to 80mph on a BMW is likely to be anywhere between 77 and 78mph.

Might touch 79mph if you're going down a hill for a couple of seconds though

Don't need to qualify that with BMW, speedo will always show a higher speed then true on any vehicle, the only question is by how much.

Hmmm...my car on cruise control set at 30 will happily get all nadgy, flash the CC set speed at me and show the best part of 40 on the speedo if the hill is steep enough. DAMHIK. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: NNB Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 05:13
Post #1523794

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 20 Oct 2019 - 14:36) *
QUOTE (typefish @ Sun, 20 Oct 2019 - 14:11) *
……….
Having your cruise control set to 80mph on a BMW is likely to be anywhere between 77 and 78mph.

Might touch 79mph if you're going down a hill for a couple of seconds though

Don't need to qualify that with BMW, speedo will always show a higher speed then true on any vehicle, the only question is by how much.

Hmmm...my car on cruise control set at 30 will happily get all nadgy, flash the CC set speed at me and show the best part of 40 on the speedo if the hill is steep enough. DAMHIK. rolleyes.gif


Mine has a break function when going down hill, still might raise the speed by 1-2mph before it kicks in right enough.


Posted by: The Rookie Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 06:05
Post #1523796

To BMW internal standards for their electronic speedos is that they are set to over read by 3kph (2mph) when fitted with brand new (largest rolling radius) tyres, that was back in 2003 when I last worked with them but doubt it’s changed as most manufacturers have very similar standards.

Posted by: NNB Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 06:59
Post #1523797

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 07:05) *
To BMW internal standards for their electronic speedos is that they are set to over read by 3kph (2mph) when fitted with brand new (largest rolling radius) tyres, that was back in 2003 when I last worked with them but doubt it’s changed as most manufacturers have very similar standards.


Good to know thanks, that would take me to 78mph.

Posted by: Spandex Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 09:43
Post #1523830

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 07:05) *
To BMW internal standards for their electronic speedos is that they are set to over read by 3kph (2mph) when fitted with brand new (largest rolling radius) tyres, that was back in 2003 when I last worked with them but doubt it’s changed as most manufacturers have very similar standards.

I've owned quite a few BMWs made after 2003 and can confirm this was still the case up to at least 2011.

On most of the Exx models you can code the centre display to show a digital speedo and this can be set to 'actual' speed rather than adjusted so I've been able to compare the two at various speeds in a lot of the cars I've owned. Not sure if the Fxx or Gxx models have the same coding options.

Posted by: DancingDad Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 10:30
Post #1523847

QUOTE (Spandex @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 10:43) *
……….
On most of the Exx models you can code the centre display to show a digital speedo and this can be set to 'actual' speed rather than adjusted so I've been able to compare the two at various speeds in a lot of the cars I've owned. Not sure if the Fxx or Gxx models have the same coding options.

Seems easier then comparing to satnav speed though that may be an average or finding one of the useful boards that tells you your speed, often with red Slow Down flashing at you.

Posted by: Jlc Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 10:53
Post #1523854

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 11:30) *
...finding one of the useful boards that tells you your speed, often with red Slow Down flashing at you.

I wouldn't trust the accuracy of those! Whatever speed I'm doing they seem to trigger!

Posted by: Fredd Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 11:14
Post #1523861

QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 11:53) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 11:30) *
...finding one of the useful boards that tells you your speed, often with red Slow Down flashing at you.

I wouldn't trust the accuracy of those! Whatever speed I'm doing they seem to trigger!

The ones that indicate an actual speed seem to be quite accurate. The kind that just flash a roundel or a naggy message can be all over the place, IME.

Posted by: NNB Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 11:57
Post #1523878

I remember back in 2013 I had just purchased a Mercedes after owning BMW's for the 8 years previous. I travelled the A9 often and always sat with the CC on at 80mph.

The first time coming back from Aberdeen in the MB, I had the cruise set at 80mph and I ended up getting a speeding fine in the post. Thinking back, this kind of confirms the BMW speedo accuracy!

Although, I don't think I will have been that lucky to avoid everything, showing a true speed of 78mph, on my journey from Northampton. Fingers crossed though!!!

Posted by: DancingDad Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 12:44
Post #1523883

QUOTE (Fredd @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 12:14) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 11:53) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 11:30) *
...finding one of the useful boards that tells you your speed, often with red Slow Down flashing at you.

I wouldn't trust the accuracy of those! Whatever speed I'm doing they seem to trigger!

The ones that indicate an actual speed seem to be quite accurate. The kind that just flash a roundel or a naggy message can be all over the place, IME.


That's my experience, at least for the ones round here, they seem to give a consistent reading against my indicated speed.
Consistent enough that I reckon my speedo is reading about 10% high.
Which in turn means I can set my speed limiter to limit plus 10% and be relatively confident that I should always be below the +10%+2mph notional enforcement limits. And likely around the actual limit. Worked so far.
Use the limiter rather the CC for this as my CC is the dumb kind, will hold a speed but doesn't care what other traffic is doing, so always having to adjust to suit the bloke in front who is not holding a consistent speed.

Don't like the one local board BTW, that not only gives a speed and the nag but also the registration number... heart failure every time. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: NNB Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 16:35
Post #1523945

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 13:44) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 12:14) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 11:53) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 11:30) *
...finding one of the useful boards that tells you your speed, often with red Slow Down flashing at you.

I wouldn't trust the accuracy of those! Whatever speed I'm doing they seem to trigger!

The ones that indicate an actual speed seem to be quite accurate. The kind that just flash a roundel or a naggy message can be all over the place, IME.


That's my experience, at least for the ones round here, they seem to give a consistent reading against my indicated speed.
Consistent enough that I reckon my speedo is reading about 10% high.
Which in turn means I can set my speed limiter to limit plus 10% and be relatively confident that I should always be below the +10%+2mph notional enforcement limits. And likely around the actual limit. Worked so far.
Use the limiter rather the CC for this as my CC is the dumb kind, will hold a speed but doesn't care what other traffic is doing, so always having to adjust to suit the bloke in front who is not holding a consistent speed.

Don't like the one local board BTW, that not only gives a speed and the nag but also the registration number... heart failure every time. rolleyes.gif


With regards to the talk of flashing....

Last Monday was quite dull and I would have thought I would have saw flashes if I have been caught by a fixed camera? I do not recall seeing any (I wasn't looking for them right enough)
Do all the fixed cameras flash?

Posted by: NNB Tue, 29 Oct 2019 - 15:48
Post #1526000

Update time.

I received my V5C confirming I was the owner from 11/10/2019 with a DOC REF DATE of 14/10/2019, the date I was driving back potentially getting caught speeding.

My question is, Is it as simple as if a motorist is caught speeding on a date XX, the police then check the PNC on date XX. Or is it usually next day or a few days after?

Just wondering as my 14 days is up for the NIP but obviously depending on the above I may need to wait a little longer......

Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 29 Oct 2019 - 15:57
Post #1526004

QUOTE (Spandex @ Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 09:43) *
On most of the Exx models you can code the centre display to show a digital speedo

I seriously doubt that! E21? E30? E34?

Posted by: DancingDad Tue, 29 Oct 2019 - 17:02
Post #1526019

QUOTE (NNB @ Tue, 29 Oct 2019 - 15:48) *
Update time.

I received my V5C confirming I was the owner from 11/10/2019 with a DOC REF DATE of 14/10/2019, the date I was driving back potentially getting caught speeding.

My question is, Is it as simple as if a motorist is caught speeding on a date XX, the police then check the PNC on date XX. Or is it usually next day or a few days after?

Just wondering as my 14 days is up for the NIP but obviously depending on the above I may need to wait a little longer......


It all depends on when the police check.
Possible contravention on the 13th with the RK details updated on the 11th and docref of 14th should have put you in the frame.
But cannot guarantee as it all depends on when police check with DVLA and what DVLA show at that time.
If they checked on the 13th and you were not shown as RK at that time, any notice would have gone to previous owner.
If 14th or later, should have been winging its way to you.
Still a waiting game and FWIW, still don't think you will hear anything from the journey.

Posted by: southpaw82 Tue, 29 Oct 2019 - 17:06
Post #1526020

AIUI, the police don’t check with DVLA. They check with the PNC, which is updated overnight. If that is (still) the case then a DOCREF date matching the offence date will result in a PNC hit for the previous keeper, who wouldn’t have been removed from PNC until the next day.

Posted by: DancingDad Tue, 29 Oct 2019 - 17:14
Post #1526025

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 29 Oct 2019 - 17:06) *
AIUI, the police don’t check with DVLA. They check with the PNC, which is updated overnight. If that is (still) the case then a DOCREF date matching the offence date will result in a PNC hit for the previous keeper, who wouldn’t have been removed from PNC until the next day.


I stand corrected thanks.
But basic is still it depends on when police check and what the records show when they do.

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