PCN for code 12 no residents pass but road markings say loading?! |
PCN for code 12 no residents pass but road markings say loading?! |
Fri, 17 Jul 2020 - 15:00
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 74 Joined: 15 Sep 2016 Member No.: 87,151 |
Hi, given a code 12 PCN in plymouth - parked in residents or shared use place without clearly displaying permit, voucher ect.
...BUT I WAS LOADING an aircon unit and the road markings clearly says "LOADING ONLY"!!! observation on the pcn is 6 mins what is my best line of recourse to this??? thanks if you can help PCN front https://ibb.co/6XGTZ13 PCN back https://ibb.co/KhjWCrr warden pic 1 https://ibb.co/JRX1Wqq warden pic 2 https://ibb.co/1f6gK52 warden pic 3 https://ibb.co/G0GWgnL my pic of loading bay road marking https://ibb.co/8DxnHcq |
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Fri, 17 Jul 2020 - 15:00
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Tue, 21 Jul 2020 - 00:42
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 701 Joined: 11 Oct 2006 From: stapleford,nottingham Member No.: 8,176 |
Code 12 is residents only permit.Code 16 is for the likes of doctors etc, permits only.Road plates enforce the regulation.Without a road plate, no contravention occurred.For example.If there is a bus stop, and the road has the yellow bus stop markings but there is no road plate saying "No stopping except buses", then you cannot be served a PCN if you stop in the bus stop.
In the above situation, I would give the vehicle 5 minutes observation even though there is no permit on display(presumably).After 5 minutes with no activity at the vehicle, I would have to issue a PCN, on a code 16, not a code 12.However,please bear in mind that the 5 minutes obs.can be over ridden, if I saw the driver come from the chip shop, or greggs, etc. I notice the permit sign says N.That may well be the permit that you need in order to park there.For instance,Central Avenue,in West Bridgford,Nottingham, has permit holder parking only from 07:00 to 19:00, as long as your permit is a SAP,or Special Access permit.The number of times i have caught out blue badge holders who have parked in the permit bays but have not got a SAP. Hope this helps you in your decision to either appeal or pay. I would appeal on the grounds of the wrong code.12 is residents.The contravention should have been a code 16. This post has been edited by busman: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 - 00:48 |
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Tue, 21 Jul 2020 - 08:27
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
QUOTE I would appeal on the grounds of the wrong code.12 is residents.The contravention should have been a code 16. As said earlier i would save this for formal representation and appeal . At challenge stage it will not be understood and failing to consider at this step is not well recieved by adjudicators at TPT -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 21 Jul 2020 - 15:48
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 74 Joined: 15 Sep 2016 Member No.: 87,151 |
okies cool so.... To whom is may concern, I would like to challenge this PCN under the loading exemptions set out in (where am i quoting these from??). At the time of the alleged contravention I was loading an airconditioning unit in to the vehicle from the 5th floor. Furthermore, I would also like to Draw your attention to your evidence that shows that "LOADING ONLY" is clearly marked on the road. I would be more than happy to prove in court, if needed, that any reasonable person would find the signage and road markings for this bay are inadequate and contradictory. best regards, me. nope, busy today but will put something together tomorrow ok lookig forward to what you come up with ps. whats wrong with mine lol |
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Tue, 21 Jul 2020 - 15:54
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Tell us more about this aircon unit and why you were loading it. All we know is it was on the fifth floor.
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Tue, 21 Jul 2020 - 17:33
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 74 Joined: 15 Sep 2016 Member No.: 87,151 |
It was an old delongi unit that was cluttering up the place and im getting a new one so i took it too my mothers... lol I mean how far do we need to go in to the specifics of it?
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Tue, 21 Jul 2020 - 18:09
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
It was an old delongi unit that was cluttering up the place and im getting a new one so i took it too my mothers... lol I mean how far do we need to go in to the specifics of it? If you are claiming a loading exemption we do find it helps to say what you were loading and if you were a tradesperson (seems not). How heavy and large is this unit? And now we find you are a resident on the 5th floor? So why no parking permit? Where do you park your car? |
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Tue, 21 Jul 2020 - 18:55
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 74 Joined: 15 Sep 2016 Member No.: 87,151 |
split a/c so the compressor/condensor unit then the evaporator part.
I have an allocated space in the subterranean car park under the flats but that would have meant opening 2 doors instead of one which would have been a PITA |
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Tue, 21 Jul 2020 - 19:19
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
split a/c so the compressor/condensor unit then the evaporator part. I have an allocated space in the subterranean car park under the flats but that would have meant opening 2 doors instead of one which would have been a PITA If its at your mothers take some photos good evidence for an adjudicator if not the council -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 21 Jul 2020 - 20:25
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 74 Joined: 15 Sep 2016 Member No.: 87,151 |
cool thanks will take some next time i go round there
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Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 21:55
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 74 Joined: 15 Sep 2016 Member No.: 87,151 |
so the council replied and asked for a delivery note, iv sent them the pic of the unit i took
also they say that the code used is correct.... PASTMYBEST : i searched the case you mentioned 2190260964 and it appears that that case involves the suffix S on the PCN which was argued to make the PCN invalid as the suffix is key... my PCN has no suffix and, if there is no suffix code 12 and 16 can be used interchangeably from my understanding? This post has been edited by h00vertime: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 - 22:06 |
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Tue, 11 Aug 2020 - 12:02
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 11 Aug 2020 - 12:49
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 74 Joined: 15 Sep 2016 Member No.: 87,151 |
ok thanks, are these codes all the same nationwide?? i see the last post to which you refered refers to london.. i am in plymouth.
also what does shared use mean and how do i know the bay is shared use? |
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Tue, 11 Aug 2020 - 13:05
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
ok thanks, are these codes all the same nationwide?? i see the last post to which you refered refers to london.. i am in plymouth. also what does shared use mean and how do i know the bay is shared use? Yes and it Plymouth the lower rate is set by law , but see what comes of your loading challenge first because this is an argument not tested at TPT though in truth should be assisted by the fact that the lower level penalty is set by law -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 13 Aug 2020 - 13:51
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 74 Joined: 15 Sep 2016 Member No.: 87,151 |
Wrong code has been tested before at tribuneral hasn't it? Iv got away before by simply saying wrong code and therefore the contravention did not occur
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