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Reduced Fine Possible After Rejected London Tribunals?
shedbuilder
post Mon, 8 Aug 2022 - 20:48
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Hey all, I have looked fairly hard but cant fine a clear answer anywhere.

I appealed an FPN first to TFL and then London Tribunals both of which have now been rejected. I received the rejection from London Tribunals today (8th Aug) despite the letter being dated (26th July) ie. 13 days ago huh.gif .

My question is do I still get the 14 days early repayment option or is that now lost given my failed appeals? The letter from London Tribunals make no mention of this option and says I must pay the full amount (£160) within 28 days.

Also if it is true, I know dates are from the date of receipt as opposed to sending is there anyway I can prove this to avoid funny business down the line.

Cheers all
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post Mon, 8 Aug 2022 - 20:48
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southpaw82
post Mon, 8 Aug 2022 - 21:36
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Are you sure it’s an FPN? (And not a PCN?)


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shedbuilder
post Mon, 8 Aug 2022 - 22:22
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Yeh sorry meant PCN.
Not had a FPN yet!
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Neil B
post Mon, 8 Aug 2022 - 22:48
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Tribunal case number?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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stamfordman
post Mon, 8 Aug 2022 - 23:11
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TFL has been reoffering the discount after the tribunal in some recent cases. This is not usual as the tribunal is of course at full whack otherwise everyone would appeal.

So as Neil says what is the case number and what amount is showing online on TFL's site.

But if you have a letter demanding £160 I wouldn't hold out hope.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 - 23:16
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Incandescent
post Tue, 9 Aug 2022 - 07:33
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Post up the letter with name and address blanked-out.
As said, all appeals at London Tribunal are against the full PCN penalty, the discount option is lost.

Better if you'd come on here before going to London Tribunals
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shedbuilder
post Tue, 9 Aug 2022 - 21:25
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Cant upload pics here so hello imageshack after so many years apart.

LT Case no is:
220423096

Cover letter with fine
https://imageshack.com/i/pmmLe724j

LT reasoning:
https://imageshack.com/i/pnu2z9Z3j

Seems I cant get reduced fine mad.gif

Cheers

This post has been edited by shedbuilder: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 - 21:27
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Incandescent
post Tue, 9 Aug 2022 - 22:15
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QUOTE (shedbuilder @ Tue, 9 Aug 2022 - 22:25) *
Cant upload pics here so hello imageshack after so many years apart.

LT Case no is:
220423096

Cover letter with fine
https://imageshack.com/i/pmmLe724j

LT reasoning:
https://imageshack.com/i/pnu2z9Z3j

Seems I cant get reduced fine mad.gif

Cheers

No indeed. Sorry we cannot be of more help. Best if you come on here first before starting on the appeals process.
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shedbuilder
post Tue, 9 Aug 2022 - 22:54
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Tue, 9 Aug 2022 - 23:15) *
QUOTE (shedbuilder @ Tue, 9 Aug 2022 - 22:25) *
Cant upload pics here so hello imageshack after so many years apart.

LT Case no is:
220423096

Cover letter with fine
https://imageshack.com/i/pmmLe724j

LT reasoning:
https://imageshack.com/i/pnu2z9Z3j

Seems I cant get reduced fine mad.gif

Cheers

No indeed. Sorry we cannot be of more help. Best if you come on here first before starting on the appeals process.


Yeh thought as much, thanks anyway.
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astralite
post Wed, 10 Aug 2022 - 07:07
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The Tribunal number is 2220423096
As stamfordman noted above TFL have been offering the discount in some cases.
Using your PCN number and Reg number check on the TFL website to see what amount they say is outstanding.
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Incandescent
post Wed, 10 Aug 2022 - 08:16
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Having read the judgment, I doubt whether the OP will get a discount. Arguing that a direction arrow isn't there when it quite plainly is there doesn't generate sympathy.
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astralite
post Wed, 10 Aug 2022 - 10:02
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I agree a discount is unlikely but the OP will find out on the payment portal.

However, on the matter of the signs there are instances where a sign was not there on the actual date of the alleged contravention (in this case on 27 Mar 2022) but was replaced sometime after.
In this case the Council provided site photographs dated 10 March 2020 and images from Googlemaps showing that the same signs were in place in February 2022. So whereas its probable the Keep Left bollard/sign was there, evidentially there is a three- six week gap.

In a recent Kingston bus lane case we did not know if an important no left turn sign was there on the actual date but we do know that it was missing for at least two months.
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t=#entry1724306

Underlines I think the importance of getting photos as soon as possible if that can be done, and of course early advice.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 10 Aug 2022 - 10:30
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For some reason I thought this was ULEZ or congestion charge, where we have seen discounts reoffered. As it's moving traffic this is different. Sorry.
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hcandersen
post Wed, 10 Aug 2022 - 13:32
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If the sign is erected then it follows that it's there for a reason.

It's therefore not beyond reason that if the sign was missing at the time then there would have been a spike in TfL PCNs issued for that reason on or around that date. Which would logically have led to a spike in appeals....

..but there isn't as far as I can see.

Yes, it's circumstantial but ....

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 - 13:48
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