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PCN 12R, Royal Borough of Greenwich - Carer ticketed whilst grabbing permit from client residence?, I need advice for a formal appeal.
WabashBlues
post Sat, 22 Feb 2020 - 19:55
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Hi guys,

I’m here to get some advice following my friend’s advice regarding a formal appeal having already informally appealed and been rejected. My friend said to point out the NtO has not yet been issued;

So the basics are that I work as a carer. I parked in a resident’s bay but then had to access the service user’s property via a key safe (I have to use an encrypted card to decipher the code) in order to fetch the carer’s parking permit (which is shared by several other carers and not always left in the same place). Within this time (5 minutes or less by my reckoning) a PCN was issued for contravention "12R - Parked in a resident’s or shared use parking place or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for the place where required, or without payment of the parking charge (residents' bay)”.

I wasn’t fully aware of Pepipoo or advice before I appealed informally. I did so on 21/12/2019 and have an email acknowledging recipient of this informal appeal on the same date; though I do not have a copy of my original appeal as I was unaware I would be unable to access this after submission. I submitted with my appeal and a picture of the client’s valid permit for carers (see attached). I note the council have replied suggesting they used ‘careful consideration’ in the case but I also note further that despite this they did not inform me of a potential to reduce the rate of the penalty as described by their site here (which I’ve since learned);

https://www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/info/2002...parking_fines/3

So I am of doubt that they have tried to resolve this sensibly despite their ‘careful consideration’. I am potentially satisfied to pay the half price of a lower tiered penalty in this case because I will be travelling next month and would like the issue resolved; but I am unsure if I can pursue the council for this and what success it might yield against going to formal appeal; rejection; and then potential adjudication. I’d ideally like to avoid the full tariff £130, or full tariff lower and be offered the opportunity as a carer of the lower rate, also then offered at its half price rate therein. This is for no admission of guilt responsibility or wrongdoing; it is merely because I wish to get the matter resolved swiftly before I am due to travel.

Following all this, I received a letter dated 17/02/2020 on 19/02/2020 detailing that my informal appeal was rejected. Please note this suggests that I did not submit my appeal within the 14 days as starting on the 8th (which would make the 21st the 14th day) whereas I have in my email a copy of the email acknowledging receipt of the appeal by the EA (Greenwich parking services) on 21/12/2020.

What are my options here Pepipoo? I don’t have much time left (because I’m an idiot who didn’t listen to his friend sooner about posting here) - my friend explains that now the informal appeal has been rejected I probably cannot reply with success to any bodies until the NtO is issued (I don’t know a lot about all this) at which point then I will be very time pressed to make the formal appeal if I want it all to be good and right - so here I am, I guess? Can you guys help out?

Thank you for taking the time to read this all. Any help would be much appreciated. Will do my best to respond to any queries asap as your help is very much appreciated.

BW,

AWorriedCarer





















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post Sat, 22 Feb 2020 - 19:55
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DancingDad
post Mon, 6 Apr 2020 - 09:35
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Two facets apply and both need to be used.

Contravention did not Occur.
I was in the process of obtaining a permit....details or one of the drafts above.

Penalty Exceeds the Amount Due in the Circumstances.
The council failed to re-offer the discount as detailed within their PCN and in fact denied that they had received a challenge in time.
Their records attached....
Needs fleshing out.

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cp8759
post Mon, 6 Apr 2020 - 10:49
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QUOTE (BobbertM @ Mon, 6 Apr 2020 - 10:22) *
Does this look ok?

No not really, I recommend you use the draft I wrote for you in post 15, just add your name, address and PCN number, don't change anything else. You've been given something you can just copy and paste so I'm not sure why you keep trying to go off and do your own thing.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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BobbertM
post Mon, 6 Apr 2020 - 17:31
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 6 Apr 2020 - 11:49) *
QUOTE (BobbertM @ Mon, 6 Apr 2020 - 10:22) *
Does this look ok?

No not really, I recommend you use the draft I wrote for you in post 15, just add your name, address and PCN number, don't change anything else. You've been given something you can just copy and paste so I'm not sure why you keep trying to go off and do your own thing.


Excuse you but I am not OP work on your attention to detail in legal issues. OP has obviously struggled to recocile both your advice and hcandersen's differing bits of advice and I haven't understood any flaw in following hcandersen's advice in leaving the plumbing case aside given we don't have council/CEO notes to hand to knoe if its is neccesary? No offense here but you seem yo have assumef I am op and it seems to offended you ego - I'm just saying theres two competing ideas here and I won't deny for me personally I've seen and been helped bt hcandersen years ago and seen many other so I'm just here trying to help OP to reconcile the information and vith of your posts together. Do you not feel hcandersen raised any points og validity in his critique of your recommendations cp8759? Is there any merit - OP hasnt attempted anyewhere to 'do their own thing' I have attempted as 3rd party to reconcile what they see as a discrepency on their behalf.
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cp8759
post Tue, 7 Apr 2020 - 19:12
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@BobbertM I take your point but I stand by my advice, the OP should in my view simply send what's been drafted.


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