s172 under lockdown Options

[cp8759]

We are all under government orders to:

Stay at home
Only go outside for food, health reasons or essential work

Posting a reply to a s172 request was not mentioned and annoyingly, the SI is not online yet. So, do you ignore the letter? Or walk to the post box and in so doing risk committing some other offence?

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[cp8759]

So aimlessly driving around in your sealed box is fine, as long as that doesn't involve stopping to buy snacks/fuel/wander about/have a pee. Doesn't sound like much fun to me, really.

You don't ever go for a drive for fun?

[TryOut]

We are all under government orders to:

Stay at home
Only go outside for food, health reasons or essential work

Posting a reply to a s172 request was not mentioned and annoyingly, the SI is not online yet. So, do you ignore the letter? Or walk to the post box and in so doing risk committing some other offence?

If there was ever a justification for your post is it.

[mike5100]

Therefore is a drive or a ride acceptable.

If you take a 'common sense' view - riding wearing gloves and a helmet is a pretty effective form of self isolation. The problem however is the number of people demonstrating that 'common sense' is less common than it ought to be. If the purpose of the rules is to impose a strict curfew with limited necessary exceptions, as people can't be trusted to apply common sense, then it appears less acceptable.

On balance, if we are allowed to leave home once a day to exercise, whilst the exercise element of motorcycling is perhaps less obvious than it is for MAMILs, IMHO the inherent self-isolating aspect of motorcycling (riding, not meeting up at Box Hill, etc.) ought to justify it.

I rode my (motor)bike nearly 100 miles yesterday (wonderfully deserted in the Pennines). But that was because a farm shop had toilet rolls it was prepared to sell me whilst all the local shops had been raided. Is that classed as essential travel?
Mike

[The Rookie]

So aimlessly driving around in your sealed box is fine, as long as that doesn't involve stopping to buy snacks/fuel/wander about/have a pee. Doesn't sound like much fun to me, really.

2004 BMW Z4 on the drive, straight six, manual, convertible and an accommodating traction control.....sounds like fun to me!

[speedfighter23]

I don't understand why people are having such difficulty working out whether any specific activity is a risky one or not.

The basic principles are to avoid being exposed to breathed-out droplets by staying at least 2m from other people not in your immediate household group, minimising the time and number of occasions when you have even that degree of near contact, and hand-washing frequently to deal with viral transfer by contact with contaminated surfaces.

So aimlessly driving around in your sealed box is fine, as long as that doesn't involve stopping to buy snacks/fuel/wander about/have a pee. Doesn't sound like much fun to me, really.

Well if you are hungry and buy snacks surely that is essential!
Same with fuel. What do you want to do, run out?

May be harder to justify if you have 4 mates in the car from different addresses!

[Fredd]

Well if you are hungry and buy snacks surely that is essential!
Same with fuel. What do you want to do, run out?

No, those would show that you'd made a stupid decision to go for a drive in the first place, since you weren't able to do it safely.

[Neil B]

Similar to the original question >

In time Stat Decs? Theoretically you can use PE2 to request an extension, i.e. before being 'out of time' but you'd
still need it sworn/witnessed so may not be possible.

It should, of course, be a cast iron reason for OOT but what's the odds councils would still object down the line.

[southpaw82]

Similar to the original question >

In time Stat Decs? Theoretically you can use PE2 to request an extension, i.e. before being 'out of time' but you'd
still need it sworn/witnessed so may not be possible.

It should, of course, be a cast iron reason for OOT but what's the odds councils would still object down the line.

Are the courts not doing these via telephone/video hearings?

[DancingDad]

Similar to the original question >

In time Stat Decs? Theoretically you can use PE2 to request an extension, i.e. before being 'out of time' but you'd
still need it sworn/witnessed so may not be possible.

It should, of course, be a cast iron reason for OOT but what's the odds councils would still object down the line.

Are the courts not doing these via telephone/video hearings?

I think Neil is thinking on Stat Decs sent to TEC for decrim motoring/parking contraventions.
TEC only ever deal on papers anyway but are notorious for rejecting forms not filled in correctly.

[cp8759]

Well if you are hungry and buy snacks surely that is essential!
Same with fuel. What do you want to do, run out?

No, those would show that you'd made a stupid decision to go for a drive in the first place, since you weren't able to do it safely.

You need to use gloves to fill up a car anyway as the petrol pumps are a clear source of cross-contamination risk, using pay @ pump can further reduce the risk and filling up with fuel is pretty essential in any case. Snacks you can simply buy with your general grocery shopping.

[mike5100]

Well if you are hungry and buy snacks surely that is essential!
Same with fuel. What do you want to do, run out?

No, those would show that you'd made a stupid decision to go for a drive in the first place, since you weren't able to do it safely.

You need to use gloves to fill up a car anyway as the petrol pumps are a clear source of cross-contamination risk, using pay @ pump can further reduce the risk and filling up with fuel is pretty essential in any case. Snacks you can simply buy with your general grocery shopping.

yes - agreed - the snacks might be optional but at some point in a cumulation of essential journeys you are going to need petrol. I am preferring to pay in the kiosk at the moment as I can do it using my phone and standing well back from any staff. I have this vague idea there's more risk in fiddling about with a card reader on the pump. I haven't seen any that accept my iphone being used at the pump but I may be wrong?
Mike

[nigelbb]

Well if you are hungry and buy snacks surely that is essential!
Same with fuel. What do you want to do, run out?

No, those would show that you'd made a stupid decision to go for a drive in the first place, since you weren't able to do it safely.

You need to use gloves to fill up a car anyway as the petrol pumps are a clear source of cross-contamination risk, using pay @ pump can further reduce the risk and filling up with fuel is pretty essential in any case. Snacks you can simply buy with your general grocery shopping.

yes - agreed - the snacks might be optional but at some point in a cumulation of essential journeys you are going to need petrol. I am preferring to pay in the kiosk at the moment as I can do it using my phone and standing well back from any staff. I have this vague idea there's more risk in fiddling about with a card reader on the pump. I haven't seen any that accept my iphone being used at the pump but I may be wrong?
Mike

I had to fill up today on the way back from shopping* & wore the plastic bags they give out instead of gloves while dispensing fuel went into shop opening the door by leaning shoulder against the paid using Apple Pay on my phone but then had to grab a bit of door handle to pull the door towards me to get out of the shop. I'll remember to keep a plastic bag on next time

*NHS staff hour 08:00-09:00 at M&S in Walton-on-the-Naze which was enforced by requiring production of an ID badge. Very civilised only 8-10 customers in the store. Good social distancing. A bit sparse on the veg front but I got all I needed part from chicken breasts & red & green peppers. Again paid by Apple Pay which is better than contactless as there is no £30 per transaction limit.

There is an Aldi across the road that I observed from a distance. There was quite a scrum outside the doors waiting for opening at 08:00. The car park was 3/4 full when I left for home about 08:30 so I don't know how they were managing a 2m separation in the store with so many shoppers.

[speedfighter23]

I don't understand why everyone goes shopping in the morning, I go after work and it's always empty! Stocks are back up as well, the manager at the Waitrose I was at said that things are getting better and it will take about a week to catch up back to normal stocking levels. I even found paracetemol, which is after hand sanitizer the most valuable commodity in the UK at the moment!

This post has been edited by speedfighter23: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 23:18

[Korting]

Are the Muppets who administer the S172's etc considered 'essential workers'?

They should be self isolating with their families rather than going into work.

[The Rookie]

Are the Muppets who administer the S172's etc considered 'essential workers'?

They should be self isolating with their families rather than going into work.

Most could work from home, you would only need perhaps one person (so isolated) to do the printing and posting.

Maybe they have stopped work, and unlike the Muppet police in Aus have decided not to tell the country they can now break the (this) law with near impunity.
https://www.caradvice.com.au/835278/police-...ng-coronavirus/

[The Slithy Tove]

I don't understand why everyone goes shopping in the morning, I go after work and it's always empty! Stocks are back up as well, the manager at the Waitrose I was at said that things are getting better and it will take about a week to catch up back to normal stocking levels. I even found paracetemol, which is after hand sanitizer the most valuable commodity in the UK at the moment!

Could we finally be reaching the point where people feel their stockpiles are sufficient? I read somewhere that there was an additional £1bn worth of groceries in people's homes that wouldn't normally be there. But that's "only" about £30 per household on the basis there are about 30m households in the country.

Maybe they have stopped work, and unlike the Muppet police in Aus have decided not to tell the country they can now break the (this) law with near impunity.
https://www.caradvice.com.au/835278/police-...ng-coronavirus/

It's not even law yet in this country. Won't be till next week. I thought they could get legislation through in hours when they really needed to.

[Mayhem007]

I don't understand why people are having such difficulty working out whether any specific activity is a risky one or not.

The basic principles are to avoid being exposed to breathed-out droplets by staying at least 2m from other people not in your immediate household group, minimising the time and number of occasions when you have even that degree of near contact, and hand-washing frequently to deal with viral transfer by contact with contaminated surfaces.

So aimlessly driving around in your sealed box is fine, as long as that doesn't involve stopping to buy snacks/fuel/wander about/have a pee. Doesn't sound like much fun to me, really.

I am fully aware of hazards and risks, and the controls to put in place to minimise the risks to ALARP. I find driving therapeutic and riding enjoyable. The use of the word 'aimlessly ' is such a self-centered opinion.

It is not for me to interpret government orders or recommendations. Why else would we have judicial reviews 😊😊😊

[Fredd]

The use of the word 'aimlessly ' is such a self-centered opinion.

I meant it in the sense that you had no destination or urgent need to do it. We're not in a place where "it makes me feel good" makes something a necessity.

It is not for me to interpret government orders or recommendations.

Except here and now it is, for recommendations and guidelines anyway. Government can't possibly provide a checklist covering everything that anyone might be thinking of doing - they've spelt out the principles, it's up to individuals to use their intelligence to apply them sensibly.

[Neil B]

it's up to individuals to use their intelligence to apply them sensibly.

At which point I look out of the window and conclude we're doomed.

[cp8759]

The use of the word 'aimlessly ' is such a self-centered opinion.

I meant it in the sense that you had no destination or urgent need to do it. We're not in a place where "it makes me feel good" makes something a necessity.

Leaving the house *at all* might not be a strict necessity, if you have food for 2/3 weeks and can get an online good delivery after that. On the other hand, some people might consider "not going insane" to be a "necessity".