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Turn right into a box. Box jcn New kings road j/w Bagleys lane rt
Vin
post Thu, 30 Mar 2017 - 16:11
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Hi all hope you can help. I was on the way to work and turned right at this jcn Box jcn new Kings road j/w Bagleys lane rt. I was given the green light and entered the box turning right from Bagleys lane turning right into the A308, box and left heading to Harwood road. My exit was stopped and half in half off the box. No delays no obstructions to any one else. pcn has arrived. Looking at the pictures i can see that i have been photographed coming from Bagleys lane and stopped at the box exit half in.

My understading is that turning right into a box is allowed?

Looking on the net there seems to be a lot of talk that this box jcn brings in 3 million revenue a year and catches out motorisists every day due to the phasing of the lights but it still seems to be catching people like me and others? is there anything that can be done?
regards Vin
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post Thu, 30 Mar 2017 - 16:11
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 30 Mar 2017 - 16:15
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post the PCN and get the video, post that as well.


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Neil B
post Thu, 30 Mar 2017 - 16:35
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QUOTE (Vin @ Thu, 30 Mar 2017 - 17:11) *
My understading is that turning right into a box is allowed?

No; that would be unworkable wouldn't it.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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John U.K.
post Thu, 30 Mar 2017 - 17:05
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QUOTE
My understading is that turning right into a box is allowed?


As Neil says, it would be unworkable.

By way of clarification, my understanding is you are allowed to wait before turning right to exit the box, when prevented from doing so by oncoming traffic from the opposite direction. So it does not work when coming from the long leg of a T-junction, which is the nature of this infamous honey-trap.

However, check the video carefully and count how many seconds you were stationary.
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Vin
post Thu, 30 Mar 2017 - 17:26
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I have looked at the video. Just want to clarify. the seconds that the car is stationary then the traffic moves and is clear of the box?

thanks for your help

It looks like about 14 seconds the car is stationary.

Thanks
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Neil B
post Thu, 30 Mar 2017 - 17:41
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Can you let us see it: Might be something in your favour.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Incandescent
post Thu, 30 Mar 2017 - 21:09
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14 seconds is NOT considered de minimis, unfortunately. Five seconds or less is. OP, you need something else. Was your exit stopped by stationary or moving vehicles ?
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Vin
post Thu, 30 Mar 2017 - 21:29
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As i followed the cars into the box they were moving then as i arrived to the turning as it is difficult to see around the corner. the lights are red which from reading others seem to be the issue. i had to stop on the edge of the box with the front wheels over the box and the rest of the car in the box.
it seems so upseting that this box can earn 3 million revenue out of making a stop which does not harm anyone or restrict any traffic.
Vin
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Hippocrates
post Thu, 30 Mar 2017 - 21:55
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 30 Mar 2017 - 21:09) *
14 seconds is NOT considered de minimis, unfortunately. Five seconds or less is. OP, you need something else. Was your exit stopped by stationary or moving vehicles ?

By one adjudicator, perhaps. biggrin.gif If you are before Ms Brennan or Mr Chan, forget it. I have a thread re this.


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There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

"Hippocrates"
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Incandescent
post Thu, 30 Mar 2017 - 22:19
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QUOTE (Hippocrates @ Thu, 30 Mar 2017 - 22:55) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 30 Mar 2017 - 21:09) *
14 seconds is NOT considered de minimis, unfortunately. Five seconds or less is. OP, you need something else. Was your exit stopped by stationary or moving vehicles ?

By one adjudicator, perhaps. biggrin.gif If you are before Ms Brennan or Mr Chan, forget it. I have a thread re this.

Who seem to have been there for ever ! I wonder if adjudicators ever get PCNs and appeal them. One can always hope the biter gets bit sometimes.
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Vin
post Fri, 31 Mar 2017 - 20:27
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seems from what has been said that i will be having to pay and add to the 3 million pound revenue a year this box earns the council. What would they do without that money?
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 31 Mar 2017 - 20:29
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QUOTE (Vin @ Fri, 31 Mar 2017 - 21:27) *
seems from what has been said that i will be having to pay and add to the 3 million pound revenue a year this box earns the council. What would they do without that money?


let us see the video I think a case can be made but want to see what happened


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