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NIP Served on me today for offence 22nd April, NIP sent to wrong address. What happens now?
bugbabe
post Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 10:15
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Hi

I am alleged to have committed a speeding offence on the 22nd April whilst on holiday in Wales.

A police officer from my home town rang me today explaining the original NIP was sent to my old address-I moved on the 20th January of this year and changed my driving licence the same day. I didnt change my keepers document with the DVLa til I got my new tax on the 31st April.

The policeman dropped the NIP round today. Is this a replacement NIP? He said if we dont respnd today it will be taken to court-in Wales!

Is there still a chance of a fixed penalty? ALso it complicates matters as we dont know who was driving at the time-its not clear from the photo and either of us took turns in Wales. Both of us have a clean driving record.

Help appreciated!
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post Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 10:15
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BaggieBoy
post Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 10:29
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Since they couldn't reasonably have served the NIP on you within 14 days due to your address being incorrect, any subsequent request will be valid. Being unable to name the driver is a problem, as this will result in a trip to court and 6 points (and a large fine) if you can't convince the court you have performed reasonable diligence in attempting to identify the driver. Only if you name a driver is an fixed penalty possible (assuming the speed is within the guidleines for a FP in the first place). It's not an offence if you name the driver you think it is most likely to be, an offence would only be commited if you knowingly named the wrong driver.
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bugbabe
post Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 10:32
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - April 2011
Date of the NIP: - 2 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 75 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): -
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - driving on holiday in Wales with family. Partner and I took tunrs in driving. We do not know who was driving as it is unclear. and we shared driving.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 10:29:55 +0000

thanks for your reply.

out of interest, what are the guidelines for an FP?
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Aretnap
post Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 10:49
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Fixed penalties are generally issued at up to 49 in a 30 zone, and for up to 24mph above any other speed limit. otherwise the sentancing guidelines for speeding are:

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bugbabe
post Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 10:55
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thanks both

thats very helfpul

however, I am annoyed as we genuinely do not know who was driving. It was 2.5 months ago and either of us took turns on holiday! We always have done!

GGrr!
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Aretnap
post Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 11:01
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Of course, the speeding penalties are only relevant if you identify the driver. If you don't name the driver the speeding matter will be forgotten and you will be prosecuted for failure to provide driver details, and that carries 6 points and a fine of around 150% of your weekly income, not to mention a much bigger increase in your insurance premium than you'd expect for a minor speeding offence. To defend the charge you would have to convince the magistrates that you were unable, with "reasonable dilligence" to identify the driver, and that is a high barrier these days, as so many people have tried to get off speeding tickets using this defence since the Hamiltons made it famous. The fact that it has been so long since the alleged offence obviously helps the credibility of saying you can't remember, but that is not in itself enough. You need to be able to show that you did all you reasonably could have done. Put another way, if these was a big prize for identifying the driver, instead of a big fine for not doing it, what would you do?

Some ideas:
Reconstruct the holiday; write down what you did every day, where you drove and who did the driving?
Look at the location on Google Streetview and see if it rings any bells
Check credit card receipts - if it was a shopping trip, who paid for the shopping?
Check mobile phone records - were either of you on the phone about that time? If so, they presumably weren't the one driving.

If you still can't work it out, in view of the penalty for failing in this defence, and the inconvenience of having to attend court in Wales, you may feel that the easiest option is to take your best guess at who was driving and swallow the 3 points and £60 penalty (assuming it was not too far over the limit).

This post has been edited by Aretnap: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 11:02
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bugbabe
post Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 11:04
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Thanks all

Your advice has been very much appreciated.

Talk about a bad day! lol!

Typical, since we are both so careful normally.
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Gan
post Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 11:12
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Although the OP is now required to provide the information "as soon as reasonably possible", is he still allowed to phone and ask for any photos so long as he then replies as soon as they're received ?

What if he asked whether they show a male or female driver ? If it's his partner, the following S172 could get into time-out territory.

This post has been edited by Gan: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 11:13
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Logician
post Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 11:25
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S/he has already had the photo "ALso it complicates matters as we dont know who was driving at the time-its not clear from the photo and either of us took turns in Wales"


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Gan
post Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 12:03
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QUOTE (Logician @ Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 12:25) *
S/he has already had the photo "ALso it complicates matters as we dont know who was driving at the time-its not clear from the photo and either of us took turns in Wales"


Sorry missed that bit

In which case, if the receipts / trip details etc don't help, the OP may as well :

Decide who was more likely or
If equally likely, flip a coin or weigh up if there are benefits in naming one rather than the other.
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bugbabe
post Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 12:27
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just to add it was 35mph in a 30mph zone!

alos, will the fixed penalty still apply since it has been 2 months?

This post has been edited by bugbabe: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 12:37
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BaggieBoy
post Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 12:46
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Issuing a FP should be no problem, it might only become an issue (or a blessing) if you were close to the 6 month limit for prosecution.
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Aretnap
post Wed, 6 Jul 2011 - 13:12
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35 in a 30 would normally result in the offer of a speed awareness course (costs about £80-100 depending on the area and a few hours of your time, but no points on your licence). That may have been stymied by the delay; offers are often dependant on the offender being identified within a certain time or the course being completed within a certain time, and the exact criteria vary from area to area. I would still cross my fingers and hope one is offered, but don't be too disappointed if it isn't.

The fixed penalty is unlikely to be affected - offering one of these only becomes complicated about 5 months after the offence.
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