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Red Light Camera
ConfusedDaze
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 22:15
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Hi Guys

I might have gone through a red light camera in London yesterday.

If your front wheels go over on amber and the back on red, would that trigger a flash? (Didn't notice one but was middle of the day).

Guess I'll have to wait and see if anything turns up.

Last did a course in Feb/2016 so I guess I'm eligible if they see fit.

Here's a pic of it for completeness :-)

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5205612,-...3312!8i6656

Streetview pic was before they decided to make both Gloucester Place and Baker Street two way for some unknown reason.

Thanks :-)


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post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 22:15
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southpaw82
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 22:19
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Depends on whether the sensor in the road had armed by the time your rear wheels went over it.


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ConfusedDaze
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 23:24
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Oh well I'll just wait and see if anything turns up. Didn't notice a flash but you never know I guess.

Is the offence complete if any part of the vehicle goes over the stop line after the red light is displayed?


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666
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 06:24
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QUOTE (ConfusedDaze @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 00:24) *
Oh well I'll just wait and see if anything turns up. Didn't notice a flash but you never know I guess.

Is the offence complete if any part of the vehicle goes over the stop line after the red light is displayed?

Yes. The same offence is committed if the light is amber, but in that case there is a statutory defence.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 07:23
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The camera system 'arms' a short time (usually half a second) after the lights go red, so while what you say happened is an offence its likely the back of your car cleared the sensors before the system armed and you are in the clear. Ans that assumes that the housing even has a camera in it (they have more cheap housings than expensive cameras).


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ConfusedDaze
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 10:55
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Does that camera look empty?

Met Police won't tell me if I got flashed due to Data Protection apparently, other forces haven't had an issue telling me in the past!

So I guess 11 days to go!

This post has been edited by ConfusedDaze: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 10:55


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The Rookie
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 11:51
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Sorry, that's the new digital system, so very likely contains a camera.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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nigelbb
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 12:28
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QUOTE (ConfusedDaze @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 11:55) *
Does that camera look empty?

Met Police won't tell me if I got flashed due to Data Protection apparently, other forces haven't had an issue telling me in the past!

So I guess 11 days to go!

The DVLA will tell you if your keeper details were released if you send them a Subject Access Request https://www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvla


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British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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The Rookie
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 12:41
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 13:28) *
The DVLA will tell you if your keeper details were released if you send them a Subject Access Request https://www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvla

But the Police access the data via the PNC so DVLA won't and don't know if the Met' have accessed it or not making that a complete waste of time!


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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nigelbb
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 12:47
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 13:41) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 13:28) *
The DVLA will tell you if your keeper details were released if you send them a Subject Access Request https://www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvla

But the Police access the data via the PNC so DVLA won't and don't know if the Met' have accessed it or not making that a complete waste of time!

In that case send the SAR to the Met Police although I think the DVLA is still responsible for release of the data to the Met.

This post has been edited by nigelbb: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 12:49


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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The Rookie
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 12:48
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And they don't have to respond as its related to a criminal investigation, so still a waste of time.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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nigelbb
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 12:54
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 13:48) *
And they don't have to respond as its related to a criminal investigation, so still a waste of time.

Personally I think it's a waste of time the OP chasing this anyway as they are either going to get a ticket or they won't & either way they will know in under a fortnight.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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southpaw82
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 13:14
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 13:47) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 13:41) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 13:28) *
The DVLA will tell you if your keeper details were released if you send them a Subject Access Request https://www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvla

But the Police access the data via the PNC so DVLA won't and don't know if the Met' have accessed it or not making that a complete waste of time!

In that case send the SAR to the Met Police although I think the DVLA is still responsible for release of the data to the Met.


I’m not convinced that the DVLA can be held responsible for access to a database controlled by someone else (namely the PNC). I’m open to argument though.

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 13:48) *
And they don't have to respond as its related to a criminal investigation, so still a waste of time.

How would responding prejudice a criminal investigation?


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ConfusedDaze
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 15:56
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 13:54) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 13:48) *
And they don't have to respond as its related to a criminal investigation, so still a waste of time.

Personally I think it's a waste of time the OP chasing this anyway as they are either going to get a ticket or they won't & either way they will know in under a fortnight.


I literally just called the number and asked and that's about my limit, so won't give it much more time than that!


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notmeatloaf
post Fri, 26 Apr 2019 - 10:13
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The cameras don't record until one second into the red. As such, if your recollection of timings is correct you won't get a ticket.


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cp8759
post Sun, 28 Apr 2019 - 14:12
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QUOTE (ConfusedDaze @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 11:55) *
Does that camera look empty?

Met Police won't tell me if I got flashed due to Data Protection apparently, other forces haven't had an issue telling me in the past!

I suspect you've spoken to a 101 operator who doesn't know what they're talking about, but you need to talk to Marlowe House, their phone number used to be 020 7230 5701 but I don't know if it's still active. If it doesn't work tomorrow morning, call the MET on 020 7230 1212 and simply ask them to put you through to the Traffic Offence Report team at Marlowe House, once you're through to the right team they should be able to tell you.


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ConfusedDaze
post Sun, 5 May 2019 - 00:08
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Cheers for that, yeah I did speak to the right team but they wouldn't tell me due to DPA, I didn't push her on it as she seemed nice enough.

Thanks though.


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cp8759
post Mon, 6 May 2019 - 20:28
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QUOTE (ConfusedDaze @ Sun, 5 May 2019 - 01:08) *
Cheers for that, yeah I did speak to the right team but they wouldn't tell me due to DPA, I didn't push her on it as she seemed nice enough.

The reference to the DPA is nonsense. If you want to take this further, make a subject access request under GDPR. There is an exemption where the information could prejudice a criminal investigation, but I think the MET would really struggle to show that disclosure in this instance could cause any such prejudice.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Fredd
post Mon, 6 May 2019 - 22:37
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Perhaps it's just the issue of whether the person making the SAR is in fact the data subject?


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cp8759
post Tue, 7 May 2019 - 17:13
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Mon, 6 May 2019 - 23:37) *
Perhaps it's just the issue of whether the person making the SAR is in fact the data subject?

Maybe, but you would have thought they would hold enough information on file to confirm the subject's identity. Still, a written SAR should answer that.


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No, I am not a lawyer.
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