PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Riding without reasonable consideration - from headcam footage
Garterman
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 13:32
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 22
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Member No.: 1,859



Hello,

A member of the public on a motorbike sent headcam footage to the police of me overtaking him on my mootorbike while he was allegedly doing 30mph himself. I have been sent a NIP for 'driving without reasonable consideration for other users' and am at the point where I need to make a court plea in the next few days.
The video just shows be overtaking in the right hand lane while he's in the left lane of a two-lane road, no lack of consideration is apparent to me and it seems the only suggestion is that I was going over the speed limit. There's a speed figure showing on the footage, which I presume is GPS, which shows him doing 28-31 mph around the time. He looks at his speedo which showed around 30mph too. I don't think I could have been over the speed limit though. Another bike overtakes the same way just before me which adds to my belief that the taker of the video was actually travelling less than 30mph. Is this persons headcam speedo admissible evidence to prove my own speed?

I read somewhere that if video footage is available on social media then it's not admissible as evidence, is that correct?

Thank you for any advice/information
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
3 Pages V   1 2 3 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 13:32
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
StuartBu
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 13:40
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,163
Joined: 1 Jan 2013
From: Glasgow
Member No.: 59,097



QUOTE (Garterman @ Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 14:32) *
Hello,

A member of the public on a motorbike sent headcam footage to the police of me overtaking him on my mootorbike while he was allegedly doing 30mph himself. I have been sent a NIP for 'driving without reasonable consideration for other users' and am at the point where I need to make a court plea in the next few days.
The video just shows be overtaking in the right hand lane while he's in the left lane of a two-lane road, no lack of consideration is apparent to me and it seems the only suggestion is that I was going over the speed limit. There's a speed figure showing on the footage, which I presume is GPS, which shows him doing 28-31 mph around the time. He looks at his speedo which showed around 30mph too. I don't think I could have been over the speed limit though. Another bike overtakes the same way just before me which adds to my belief that the taker of the video was actually travelling less than 30mph. Is this persons headcam speedo admissible evidence to prove my own speed?

I read somewhere that if video footage is available on social media then it's not admissible as evidence, is that correct?

Thank you for any advice/information


Others will be along to advise but did the registered keepr of your bike get a request to state who was riding it at the time .
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 13:47
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,113
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE (Garterman @ Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 14:32) *
I read somewhere that if video footage is available on social media then it's not admissible as evidence, is that correct?

AFAIK, incorrect. In fact there have been some well-publicised prosecutions as a result of footage on the inrernet.
As said above, if you have received a request for driver information you are obliged to reply with driver details regardless, else 6 points will be the reward.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Garterman
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 14:19
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 22
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Member No.: 1,859



Yes, I repsonded to say that I was riding the bike at the time.

I wasn't able to accept the offer of 3 points and a £100 fine as I didn't have a clue what I was supposed to have done before being sent the video.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bm1957
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 14:39
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 187
Joined: 23 Aug 2013
Member No.: 64,667



Who was inconvenienced by your riding?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 15:15
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39,961
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (Garterman @ Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 14:32) *
I read somewhere that if video footage is available on social media then it's not admissible as evidence, is that correct?

Certainly not as far as I'm aware, in fact Police have used evidence posted by the drivers themselves on SM to prosecute them.

Certainly no logical reason why not, does this mean you can supply a link to it, in which case that would be helpful.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Garterman
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 15:32
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 22
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Member No.: 1,859



Sure, uploaded to drop-box.

Inconsiderate?

I pass the rider about 30 seconds into the video.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
666
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 15:35
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,030
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Member No.: 47,602



QUOTE (Garterman @ Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 15:19) *
Yes, I repsonded to say that I was riding the bike at the time.

I wasn't able to accept the offer of 3 points and a £100 fine as I didn't have a clue what I was supposed to have done before being sent the video.


OP, were you sent the video after pleading not guilty?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 15:41
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,113
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE (666 @ Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 16:35) *
QUOTE (Garterman @ Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 15:19) *
Yes, I repsonded to say that I was riding the bike at the time.

I wasn't able to accept the offer of 3 points and a £100 fine as I didn't have a clue what I was supposed to have done before being sent the video.


OP, were you sent the video after pleading not guilty?


CoFP would have been long gone by the time OP made a plea.


QUOTE (Garterman @ Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 16:32) *
Sure, uploaded to drop-box.

Inconsiderate?

I pass the rider about 30 seconds into the video.

Looks like you overtook on the inside further up?
If he was doing 30, you must have been 45-50!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 15:57
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,293
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (peterguk @ Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 16:41) *
If he was doing 30, you must have been 45-50!

I think the rider was doing slightly under 30 and the OP just over (and slowing). I can't make out the rider's speedo clearly enough though. (But the speed isn't the primary factor in this allegation - but could aggravate)

I'm not convinced they will be able to show, "A person is to be regarded as driving without reasonable consideration for other persons only if those persons are inconvenienced by his driving" but the 'undertake' on the black Galaxy (?) seems more relevant. But there's an element of subjectivity to that which always has a risk at court.

The CPS's own guidance says:

This offence is appropriate when the driving amounts to a clear act of incompetence, selfishness, impatience or aggressiveness in addition to some other inconvenience to road users. The following examples are typical of actions likely to be regarded as inconsiderate driving:

flashing of lights to force other drivers in front to give way;
misuse of any lane (including cycling lanes) to avoid queuing or gain some other advantage over other drivers;
unnecessarily remaining in an overtaking lane;
unnecessarily slow driving or braking without good cause;
driving with un-dipped headlights which dazzle oncoming drivers, cyclists or pedestrians;
driving through a puddle causing pedestrians to be splashed;
driving a bus in such a way as to alarm passengers.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 16:00


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mdann52
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 16:04
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 173
Joined: 19 Aug 2016
Member No.: 86,499



QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 16:57) *
misuse of any lane (including cycling lanes) to avoid queuing or gain some other advantage over other drivers;


There is some undertaking in the bus lane from the bike I am presuming is his (for example, around 0:35 in the video) - whether that could well be it?

Only other possibility is the speed in the 20mph zone towards the end of the video - the camera bike was doing an indicated 23 and you were pulling away from him at a fair rate. I suspect this may well be it, otherwise why would they have kept the video to this length otherwise (esp. when you are out of frame or stopped in the middle part!)

This post has been edited by mdann52: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 16:07
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Slithy Tove
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 16:13
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,204
Joined: 5 Jan 2012
Member No.: 52,178



QUOTE (mdann52 @ Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 17:04) *
Only other possibility is the speed in the 20mph zone towards the end of the video - the camera bike was doing an indicated 23 and you were pulling away from him at a fair rate. I suspect this may well be it, otherwise why would they have kept the video to this length otherwise (esp. when you are out of frame or stopped in the middle part!)

I thought bikers called that "filtering" :-). Whatever it's called, though, it doesn't appear inconsiderate, aggressive or to inconvenience anyone at all.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fredd
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 16:28
Post #13


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 7,171
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



Going by that video things have clearly changed since I was a regular biker - not least that the "lifesaver" seems to have been abandoned in favour of an unhealthy obsession with the speedometer. I don't recall rushing to report other bikers' minor transgressions to the police, either.


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
StuartBu
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 16:55
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,163
Joined: 1 Jan 2013
From: Glasgow
Member No.: 59,097



QUOTE (Fredd @ Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 17:28) *
Going by that video things have clearly changed since I was a regular biker - not least that the "lifesaver" seems to have been abandoned in favour of an unhealthy obsession with the speedometer. I don't recall rushing to report other bikers' minor transgressions to the police, either.

" Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" seems to have been forgotten
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 18:29
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,592
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



I can't see anything in that piece of riding that inconveniences anyone else, or anything worth reporting to the police.


--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
andy_foster
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 19:10
Post #16


Member
Group Icon

Group: Life Member
Posts: 20,371
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
From: Reading
Member No.: 1,624



I can only assume that the guy who reported the non-incident was in a bad mood because his mum had spilled his coco-pops over his best "Polite" vest.


--------------------
Andy

If you're going to try to contradict me, please at least try to get your facts straight.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ict_guy
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 19:33
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,328
Joined: 18 Apr 2008
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 18,924



The world has gone mad rolleyes.gif

There seems to be a lot of footage post 'criminal act'....in quotes because I'm not entirely sure where this act is.

The standard of riding (the guy with the camera) is appalling - leads me to believe nothing than a cbt has been taken....
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Irksome
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 09:03
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 290
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
From: sw11
Member No.: 38,303



I can't beleive it ... any of it, not least the atrocious standard of riding of the moron with the video camera!

Undertaking in a bus lane is an interesting point ... Bus Lanes are designed so that buses can undertake, and are separated from the other lanes by a (predominently) solid white line ... but does that actually mean it's a separate lane of the highway?

What stage is the OP at? Received a combined NIP/S172 request and responded to confirm they were the rider at the time of the allegation, a COFP has been made, has the OP actually rejected this or received a SJP?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 09:13
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,592
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



The filming was ay 0521 if the clock on the video was correct, but I could not see clearly enough to tell what hours the bus lane was operative. I notice the camera bike is in the bus lane most of the time and other traffic is mostly avoiding it.


--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Earl Purple
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 09:57
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 698
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Member No.: 39,245



From that video clip the bike that overtakes after 28 seconds appears to be speeding but it needs reasonably good equipment to record speeding offences, which can happen over a longer distance by taking an average speed between two points but can't see how that short clip can record an accurate enough speed of the vehicle overtaking to be used in court.

Regards CD20 I can't see it myself but as CD20 can now be handled by CoFP they chance it?

Anyway not sure if you have to send something back to request a court hearing, after which you'll probably hear nothing as I doubt anything can be proven from that.

Motorcycles are allowed to use the bus lane on Holloway Road. The biggest hazards on that stretch are usually vehicles turning across side roads.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Saturday, 17th November 2018 - 11:58
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.