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Suspension not in place when I parked
lhodgy
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 18:23
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Hi everyone, firstly thank you for any forthcoming help with this PCN.

This morning I parked my car at 07:25 in a resident's spot for which I do have a permit, as you can see from the pictures I was right in front of the parking sign and at the time there was not a single suspension notice on the entire road and there hadn't been a notice in place at any time forewarning of this suspension.

I'm a night worker and woke this evening to take my dog out and I noticed all the cars had gone whereas that road is always packed, even this morning I had to squeeze in to the spot.

I obviously don't have pictures from this morning as no one takes pictures daily it's just not done so how do I prove that the suspension notices weren't in place? This isn't the first time the suspensions have been placed at such short notice either, I've noticed it before and seen others cars parked without tickets but it is the first time I've been lumbered with one.

Is there any point in appealing this and how would I go about it or should I simply pay the £65 and just be very annoyed about this (scam)?









This post has been edited by lhodgy: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 19:38
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post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 18:23
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stamfordman
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 18:51
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Your other pics aren't working - let's see council pics if available. And suspension sign.
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lhodgy
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 18:57
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 19:51) *
Your other pics aren't working - let's see council pics if available. And suspension sign.


I have no idea what happened, all pics were originally showing, thanks for pointing that out I've re-uploaded now smile.gif

Council pics are not up yet, I have checked but as it was this morning I will have to re-check tomorrow I assume...

This post has been edited by lhodgy: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 18:58
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stamfordman
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 19:01
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hard to believe you'd miss that suspension given your driver's door is right by it and you parked in daylight...
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lhodgy
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 19:08
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 20:01) *
hard to believe you'd miss that suspension given your driver's door is right by it and you parked in daylight...


Honestly it wasn't there, I drove from that street at 6:30am to pick up my mother and when I returned at 07:25 there was still a street full of cars and no suspension on that entire road, it was definitely placed after I parked and as you mentioned it's impossible to miss as I'd have been face to face with it when exiting the car.

I also have a habit of double/triple checking suspension notices when they've been placed so I'm not caught out, would I be best just appealing with what I've mentioned, that the signs were not there? I just feel they will dismiss it even though it's the truth...
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stamfordman
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 19:11
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They should have a log of cars in bay when sign went up, which you can ask them to check.

Camden also has an alert system for suspensions that you sign up to.

https://www.camden.gov.uk/email-alerts-and-...scriptions#iect
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cp8759
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 19:14
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The council might dismiss it but ultimately whether you pay the penalty or not is not up to them. The first thing you should do is try and get hold of the suspension log.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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lhodgy
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 19:24
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 20:11) *
They should have a log of cars in bay when sign went up, which you can ask them to check.

Camden also has an alert system for suspensions that you sign up to.

https://www.camden.gov.uk/email-alerts-and-...scriptions#iect


I will sign up to that alert system immediately, that's pretty useful.

As for the log of cars in bays...

Should I appeal and ask them to check the 'logged bays in cars when the signs went up' in the appeal or do I need to get that information before I appeal and if so who do I get it from? Camden parking operations? I don't live far so I could always pop in tomorrow?

Basically I'd like to get the appeal in asap so that if it's rejected I can still pay the discounted price.

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 20:14) *
The council might dismiss it but ultimately whether you pay the penalty or not is not up to them. The first thing you should do is try and get hold of the suspension log.


I'll go to the council tomorrow and speak to them and request the log.
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cp8759
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 19:40
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It's probably best for you to just make an informal representation, you could expand on it slightly but this is a basic version:

------------

Dear Sir or Madam,

I contest liability for this PCN because the allege contravention did not occur. When I parked the car at 7:25 in the morning there were no signs at all, and you will appreciate I was surprised and shocked to find that within a few hours the council had erected suspension signs and issued a penalty to my vehicle.

As it is apparent the sign would have been erected on the day of the contravention, my vehicle registration will appear in the log of vehicles that were parked prior to the signs being installed. I trust that in light of this the penalty charge notice will be cancelled.

Should you reject this representation, please would you supply the full suspension history log.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 19:41


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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lhodgy
post Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 19:55
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 13 Aug 2019 - 20:40) *
It's probably best for you to just make an informal representation, you could expand on it slightly but this is a basic version:

------------

Dear Sir or Madam,

I contest liability for this PCN because the allege contravention did not occur. When I parked the car at 7:25 in the morning there were no signs at all, and you will appreciate I was surprised and shocked to find that within a few hours the council had erected suspension signs and issued a penalty to my vehicle.

As it is apparent the sign would have been erected on the day of the contravention, my vehicle registration will appear in the log of vehicles that were parked prior to the signs being installed. I trust that in light of this the penalty charge notice will be cancelled.

Should you reject this representation, please would you supply the full suspension history log.


That is absolutely brilliant, thank you so much for that draft, it's really, really appreciated and also makes things a lot more straightforward when it comes to the suspension log too smile.gif
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lhodgy
post Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 18:31
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So I've yet to submit the appeal as I was waiting for the council photographic evidence to show up and it shows (in combination with my pics) that signs were erected after the suspension was in effect.





Notice that all the cars have tickets an hour after the suspension started yet the residents parking sign outside my car does not have a suspension notice.

This should be an easy win right?

I will try and edit the draft from cp8759 slightly and post here to see what you guys think smile.gif

This post has been edited by lhodgy: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 19:58
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stamfordman
post Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 18:40
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There is probably another suspension sign further along but you are entitled to rely on the one by your car.
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lhodgy
post Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 18:44
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 19:40) *
There is probably another suspension sign further along but you are entitled to rely on the one by your car.


Honestly, I promise there wasn't, I and all those other car owners who have tickets would have noticed.

The residents here are good at respecting those notices and I walk my dog around that block multiple times, there was not a single notice in place on that entire road as late as 07:25 that morning as that's when I parked my car and then I walked along the road, there is just no way any sign was in place.

This post has been edited by lhodgy: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 19:35
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cp8759
post Wed, 14 Aug 2019 - 21:43
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What's happened to all your pics?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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