TFL PCN - Stopped in a red box, 46: Stopped where prohibited |
TFL PCN - Stopped in a red box, 46: Stopped where prohibited |
Sat, 28 Dec 2019 - 12:16
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 24 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,940 |
Hi all
Received a PCN this morning still in time for Christmas. Not sure if anything can be done for this one as I'm pretty sure I'm in the wrong. Regardless, I thought it's a good idea to ask you guys for an opinion! I stopped in a red box to quickly drop something off at post office before it closed. I stopped at 17:23 and post office closes at 17:30, so basically I was in a rush and unfortunately forgot about the hours of the red box. I'm used to stopping at the same spot later in the evening (after 7pm) nearly twice a week so it was an instinct to stop now as well. I don't see a way out of this myself and I'm ready to pay the discounted fine however perhaps there are other grounds for a representation that I'm not aware of. Your opinion is greatly appreciated! Google map location PCN scans: https://imgur.com/a/MktUoC2 Thanks for your help! Kind regards Mat This post has been edited by MMmain4: Sat, 28 Dec 2019 - 12:29 |
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Sat, 28 Dec 2019 - 12:16
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Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 20:11
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 135 Joined: 25 Jan 2016 Member No.: 81,991 |
Well this is easy peasy, providing you took the screenshots I mentioned. ----------- Dear Transport for London, Firstly please let me take this opportunity to wish you a Happy New Year. With regard to PCN GT82686137 I note the notice is dated 24 December 2019, therefore under the normal rules service is deemed to have occurred two working days later, i.e. on Monday 30 December 2020. It follows that the 21 day discount period started on that day and is due to expire at midnight on 19 January 2020. However as of 18 January 2020 the penalty had already increased to £130 on your website and I have taken screenshots to prove this, it follows that the penalty demanded exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case. I can only imagine your IT systems did not take the two bank holidays into account and while this is an understandable mistake, it is not one that TFL can seek to rectify by re-offering the discount. TFL is well-known for being a reasonable and fair-minded authority and I trust that you will therefore not only cancel my own PCN, but also cancel all PCNs issued over the festive period that have been impacted by this issue. Still seems a be a date error This post has been edited by SPARKY26: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 20:12 |
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Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 21:12
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 24 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,940 |
Hi all,
Trying to make a representation online - yesterday their website was down and today it's having "technical difficulties"... https://imgur.com/KKFDcej Not sure if I'll be able to do it today, any suggestions? Thanks |
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Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 21:14
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Try doing it again in an incognito tab, as this excludes any issues with cache or cookies at your end.
Also, have you got a screenshot of the payment page where you'd have to put your card details in? @SPARKY26 it was late when I wrote that stop coming after me This post has been edited by cp8759: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 21:15 -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 21:35
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 24 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,940 |
Yeah I've tried challenging it on multiple browsers both incognito and normal, also cleared my cache. Still same issue...
Took screenshots of all. And yep I took the screenshot of the payment page but there's not much info there, just the sum. https://imgur.com/pNONX57 |
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Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 23:00
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 24 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,940 |
Hi all
I've been trying to make a representation online with no luck everyday now, also using different browsers and computers. Same error on the website as attached in previous posts. Also took screenshots of most of my attempts, so i have at least one for past 5 days. I phoned TFL and they advised me that their website has no issues. They also tried to take out my claims on the phone as well but I didn't say anything not to mess it up. Anyway it seems I have to send my representation by post so I have a quick question - do I have to use form that came with the PCN? Or can i just print my PDF that I would've otherwise uploaded online? Is there a difference? Thanks |
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Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 12:54
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
See this link re a case at TPT that won on the early removal of the discount
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtBHPhdJdppVxEOr41E...bQuNai?e=bo8cYK -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 13:53
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
But the facts are different.
In that case the authority acknowledged their error and the progression log confirms the same. But in this one all we have is an assertion. Yes, a website is a component of the truth but it is not absolute proof IMO. |
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Sat, 25 Jan 2020 - 21:59
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Anyway it seems I have to send my representation by post so I have a quick question - do I have to use form that came with the PCN? Or can i just print my PDF that I would've otherwise uploaded online? Is there a difference? Send the form and write "see enclosed representation" and send a print-out of the PDF. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 22:35
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 24 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,940 |
Hey all
Just checked the PCN on TFL's website and it says that Representation is rejected however the price has gone down back to discounted £65. I'm assuming I should expect their letter this week stating how long the discount period is going to be valid for. I'll share the letter once it arrives. Thanks |
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Fri, 7 Feb 2020 - 20:55
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 24 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,940 |
Hi all,
Today I received a notice of rejection. The reasons aren't surprising. Pictures in the link below. https://imgur.com/a/DfYAMPS Now I'm curious if it's worth it to appeal or should I just pay the discounted fine. If appealing, any ideas on what grounds? Thanks |
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Fri, 7 Feb 2020 - 21:07
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
So they acknowledge the error but say it is mitigating factors. I would carry on but its your money so you decide. Save the cost of a cup of coffee a week between now and when you would have to pay and you will save at least the difference.
If you decide to appeal I will draft it for you -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 7 Feb 2020 - 22:46
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 24 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,940 |
Hi PASTMYBEST,
Yeah I might as well appeal, hopefully there is a good chance of success there! It'd be amazing if you could draft it because I don't even know where to begin... Thanks so much for your help |
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Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 20:57
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
This should be easy to win, in the end I doubt TFL will contest the appeal.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 16 Feb 2020 - 12:01
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 24 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,940 |
Hi PASTMYBEST,
Is there any chance you could drop a rough draft for me please? Or kind of explain the reasons I should base the appeal on? Would be super helpful Thanks |
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Sun, 16 Feb 2020 - 14:09
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
They have considered the reps and decided to not cancel for any of the statutory reasons.
In addition, they have decided to not exercise their discretion to cancel the PCN. They have, however, decided to re-offer the discount. Exactly what are the OP's grounds of appeal? |
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Mon, 17 Feb 2020 - 10:46
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
They have considered the reps and decided to not cancel for any of the statutory reasons. In addition, they have decided to not exercise their discretion to cancel the PCN. They have, however, decided to re-offer the discount. Exactly what are the OP's grounds of appeal? I'll let you pick PI removing the discount early is not allowed by regulation. Penalty exceeds when trying to pay the full penalty was demanded not the discount. I did not respond to one of the earlier posts, but lets be clear the council acknowledging an error plays only a supporting role, it is that the council make the error that creates the ground for appeal, Re offering the discount, a discretionary action cannot correct the error Personally I would go for penalty exceeds OP your evidence of the removal of the discount is not as strong as in the case I posted in that it could be that you were able to enter the amount due so you need to show that this is a pre filled and unalterable box -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Mon, 17 Feb 2020 - 11:54
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
I'll let you pick PI removing the discount early is not allowed by regulation
But do the facts support this or, more importantly, would an adj find that based on the OP's evidence and TfL's denial that TfL removed the discount early? This is not a matter of law, that's the easy part. It's what view the adj takes and conclusion they reach as regards the submitted evidence. |
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Mon, 17 Feb 2020 - 12:27
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#38
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I'll let you pick PI removing the discount early is not allowed by regulation But do the facts support this or, more importantly, would an adj find that based on the OP's evidence and TfL's denial that TfL removed the discount early? This is not a matter of law, that's the easy part. It's what view the adj takes and conclusion they reach as regards the submitted evidence. The OP has until the end of today to pay at the discount (that is midnight) I do not read the NOR as a denial of the claim more ignoring that it is correct they could not remove the discount until the 19th If the did not do so they should have said so. If I write an appeal which I will if the OP wants to continue I would certainty not see it as a lost cause to me the TfL rejection is weaker than the OP's evidence, on the balance of probability -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 22:48
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#39
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 24 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,940 |
Hi all,
Just letting you know I paid the discounted fee as I couldn't really be bothered to waste your time as well as mine. Pretty sure you can spend your time helping people with more important and unfair charges compared to mine At the end of the day I did stop where was not allowed due to my own mistake so I'm just going to take responsibility for that Thanks for all of your input! |
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