PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

TFL PCN - Stopped in a red box, 46: Stopped where prohibited
MMmain4
post Sat, 28 Dec 2019 - 12:16
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 46
Joined: 24 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,940



Hi all

Received a PCN this morning still in time for Christmas. Not sure if anything can be done for this one as I'm pretty sure I'm in the wrong. Regardless, I thought it's a good idea to ask you guys for an opinion!

I stopped in a red box to quickly drop something off at post office before it closed. I stopped at 17:23 and post office closes at 17:30, so basically I was in a rush and unfortunately forgot about the hours of the red box. I'm used to stopping at the same spot later in the evening (after 7pm) nearly twice a week so it was an instinct to stop now as well.

I don't see a way out of this myself and I'm ready to pay the discounted fine however perhaps there are other grounds for a representation that I'm not aware of. Your opinion is greatly appreciated!

Google map location

PCN scans:
https://imgur.com/a/MktUoC2

Thanks for your help!

Kind regards

Mat

This post has been edited by MMmain4: Sat, 28 Dec 2019 - 12:29
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V  < 1 2  
Start new topic
Replies (20 - 38)
Advertisement
post Sat, 28 Dec 2019 - 12:16
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
SPARKY26
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 20:11
Post #21


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 135
Joined: 25 Jan 2016
Member No.: 81,991



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 00:27) *
Well this is easy peasy, providing you took the screenshots I mentioned.

-----------

Dear Transport for London,

Firstly please let me take this opportunity to wish you a Happy New Year. With regard to PCN GT82686137 I note the notice is dated 24 December 2019, therefore under the normal rules service is deemed to have occurred two working days later, i.e. on Monday 30 December 2020. It follows that the 21 day discount period started on that day and is due to expire at midnight on 19 January 2020.

However as of 18 January 2020 the penalty had already increased to £130 on your website and I have taken screenshots to prove this, it follows that the penalty demanded exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case.

I can only imagine your IT systems did not take the two bank holidays into account and while this is an understandable mistake, it is not one that TFL can seek to rectify by re-offering the discount. TFL is well-known for being a reasonable and fair-minded authority and I trust that you will therefore not only cancel my own PCN, but also cancel all PCNs issued over the festive period that have been impacted by this issue.

Still seems a be a date error biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by SPARKY26: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 20:12
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MMmain4
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 21:12
Post #22


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 46
Joined: 24 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,940



Hi all,

Trying to make a representation online - yesterday their website was down and today it's having "technical difficulties"...
https://imgur.com/KKFDcej

Not sure if I'll be able to do it today, any suggestions?

Thanks
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 21:14
Post #23


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



Try doing it again in an incognito tab, as this excludes any issues with cache or cookies at your end.

Also, have you got a screenshot of the payment page where you'd have to put your card details in?

@SPARKY26 it was late when I wrote that stop coming after me tongue.gif icon_axe.gif

This post has been edited by cp8759: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 21:15


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MMmain4
post Sun, 19 Jan 2020 - 21:35
Post #24


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 46
Joined: 24 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,940



Yeah I've tried challenging it on multiple browsers both incognito and normal, also cleared my cache. Still same issue...
Took screenshots of all.

And yep I took the screenshot of the payment page but there's not much info there, just the sum.
https://imgur.com/pNONX57
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MMmain4
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 23:00
Post #25


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 46
Joined: 24 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,940



Hi all

I've been trying to make a representation online with no luck everyday now, also using different browsers and computers. Same error on the website as attached in previous posts. Also took screenshots of most of my attempts, so i have at least one for past 5 days.

I phoned TFL and they advised me that their website has no issues. They also tried to take out my claims on the phone as well but I didn't say anything not to mess it up. biggrin.gif

Anyway it seems I have to send my representation by post so I have a quick question - do I have to use form that came with the PCN? Or can i just print my PDF that I would've otherwise uploaded online?
Is there a difference?

Thanks
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 12:54
Post #26


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



See this link re a case at TPT that won on the early removal of the discount

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AtBHPhdJdppVxEOr41E...bQuNai?e=bo8cYK


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Wed, 22 Jan 2020 - 13:53
Post #27


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 35,063
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



But the facts are different.

In that case the authority acknowledged their error and the progression log confirms the same.

But in this one all we have is an assertion.

Yes, a website is a component of the truth but it is not absolute proof IMO.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sat, 25 Jan 2020 - 21:59
Post #28


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (MMmain4 @ Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 23:00) *
Anyway it seems I have to send my representation by post so I have a quick question - do I have to use form that came with the PCN? Or can i just print my PDF that I would've otherwise uploaded online?
Is there a difference?

Send the form and write "see enclosed representation" and send a print-out of the PDF.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MMmain4
post Tue, 4 Feb 2020 - 22:35
Post #29


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 46
Joined: 24 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,940



Hey all

Just checked the PCN on TFL's website and it says that Representation is rejected however the price has gone down back to discounted £65.

I'm assuming I should expect their letter this week stating how long the discount period is going to be valid for.

I'll share the letter once it arrives.

Thanks

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MMmain4
post Fri, 7 Feb 2020 - 20:55
Post #30


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 46
Joined: 24 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,940



Hi all,

Today I received a notice of rejection. The reasons aren't surprising. Pictures in the link below.
https://imgur.com/a/DfYAMPS

Now I'm curious if it's worth it to appeal or should I just pay the discounted fine.

If appealing, any ideas on what grounds?

Thanks
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 7 Feb 2020 - 21:07
Post #31


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



So they acknowledge the error but say it is mitigating factors. I would carry on but its your money so you decide. Save the cost of a cup of coffee a week between now and when you would have to pay and you will save at least the difference.

If you decide to appeal I will draft it for you


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MMmain4
post Fri, 7 Feb 2020 - 22:46
Post #32


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 46
Joined: 24 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,940



Hi PASTMYBEST,

Yeah I might as well appeal, hopefully there is a good chance of success there!
It'd be amazing if you could draft it because I don't even know where to begin...
Thanks so much for your help smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Mon, 10 Feb 2020 - 20:57
Post #33


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



This should be easy to win, in the end I doubt TFL will contest the appeal.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MMmain4
post Sun, 16 Feb 2020 - 12:01
Post #34


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 46
Joined: 24 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,940



Hi PASTMYBEST,

Is there any chance you could drop a rough draft for me please?
Or kind of explain the reasons I should base the appeal on?

Would be super helpful

Thanks
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Sun, 16 Feb 2020 - 14:09
Post #35


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 35,063
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



They have considered the reps and decided to not cancel for any of the statutory reasons.

In addition, they have decided to not exercise their discretion to cancel the PCN.

They have, however, decided to re-offer the discount.

Exactly what are the OP's grounds of appeal?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 17 Feb 2020 - 10:46
Post #36


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sun, 16 Feb 2020 - 14:09) *
They have considered the reps and decided to not cancel for any of the statutory reasons.

In addition, they have decided to not exercise their discretion to cancel the PCN.

They have, however, decided to re-offer the discount.

Exactly what are the OP's grounds of appeal?



I'll let you pick PI removing the discount early is not allowed by regulation. Penalty exceeds when trying to pay the full penalty was demanded not the discount.

I did not respond to one of the earlier posts, but lets be clear the council acknowledging an error plays only a supporting role, it is that the council make the error that creates the ground for appeal, Re offering the discount, a discretionary action cannot correct the error

Personally I would go for penalty exceeds

OP your evidence of the removal of the discount is not as strong as in the case I posted in that it could be that you were able to enter the amount due so you need to show that this is a pre filled and unalterable box


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Mon, 17 Feb 2020 - 11:54
Post #37


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 35,063
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



I'll let you pick PI removing the discount early is not allowed by regulation

But do the facts support this or, more importantly, would an adj find that based on the OP's evidence and TfL's denial that TfL removed the discount early?

This is not a matter of law, that's the easy part. It's what view the adj takes and conclusion they reach as regards the submitted evidence.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 17 Feb 2020 - 12:27
Post #38


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (hcandersen @ Mon, 17 Feb 2020 - 11:54) *
I'll let you pick PI removing the discount early is not allowed by regulation

But do the facts support this or, more importantly, would an adj find that based on the OP's evidence and TfL's denial that TfL removed the discount early?

This is not a matter of law, that's the easy part. It's what view the adj takes and conclusion they reach as regards the submitted evidence.


The OP has until the end of today to pay at the discount (that is midnight) I do not read the NOR as a denial of the claim more ignoring that it is correct they could not remove the discount until the 19th If the did not do so they should have said so.

If I write an appeal which I will if the OP wants to continue I would certainty not see it as a lost cause to me the TfL rejection is weaker than the OP's evidence, on the balance of probability


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MMmain4
post Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 22:48
Post #39


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 46
Joined: 24 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,940



Hi all,

Just letting you know I paid the discounted fee as I couldn't really be bothered to waste your time as well as mine.
Pretty sure you can spend your time helping people with more important and unfair charges compared to mine biggrin.gif

At the end of the day I did stop where was not allowed due to my own mistake so I'm just going to take responsibility for that smile.gif

Thanks for all of your input!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  < 1 2
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 07:09
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here