Contravention: 01 Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours Options

[bigpoppa]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum and hope someone can help.

I was parked in a bay which has a single yellow line which was Calthorpe Road, Edgbaston, Birmingham and I got a ticket for a code 1 contravention. I appealed this and it was rejected by Birmingham city council and now I have the option to take it to a tribunal for appeal but not sure if I should do.

Here is the letter I have received from them now -

https://freeimage.host/i/HujkCl
https://freeimage.host/i/HujOQ4
https://freeimage.host/i/HujNjf
https://freeimage.host/i/HujwTG
https://freeimage.host/i/Hujhps

Any help or support would be great.

Thanks.

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[bigpoppa]

You look banged-to-rights to be honest. Did you just misunderstand the sign? A plea for discretion seems like the only way forwards.

That's all it was really. I simply did not fully understand the sign and parked thinking it would be ok. I guess I should just pay the fine in that case?

[cp8759]

You look banged-to-rights to be honest. Did you just misunderstand the sign? A plea for discretion seems like the only way forwards.

That's all it was really. I simply did not fully understand the sign and parked thinking it would be ok. I guess I should just pay the fine in that case?

I've re-looked at the case and note that you're already at the Notice of Rejection stage. As the discount is gone, you might as well try something as it's now risk-free, but it's a bit of a shame you didn't come to us earlier in the process.

Have a read of these two cases, your Notice of Rejection has the same flaw:

Shelley Sinclair v London Borough of Lewisham (218033612A, 26 September 2018) http://bit.ly/2IcQBnd
David Miller v London Borough of Barnet (2170241413, 21 June 2017) http://bit.ly/2OrQl4o

If you want to pursue an appeal on this basis, let us know and we'll guide you through the next steps. Even if you lose, you'll at least get another couple of months before you have to pay.

[bigpoppa]

You look banged-to-rights to be honest. Did you just misunderstand the sign? A plea for discretion seems like the only way forwards.

That's all it was really. I simply did not fully understand the sign and parked thinking it would be ok. I guess I should just pay the fine in that case?

I've re-looked at the case and note that you're already at the Notice of Rejection stage. As the discount is gone, you might as well try something as it's now risk-free, but it's a bit of a shame you didn't come to us earlier in the process.

Have a read of these two cases, your Notice of Rejection has the same flaw:

Shelley Sinclair v London Borough of Lewisham (218033612A, 26 September 2018) http://bit.ly/2IcQBnd
David Miller v London Borough of Barnet (2170241413, 21 June 2017) http://bit.ly/2OrQl4o

If you want to pursue an appeal on this basis, let us know and we'll guide you through the next steps. Even if you lose, you'll at least get another couple of months before you have to pay.

Thank you. I would like to pursue an appeal on this basis as you are right I have nothing to lose. Please can you guide me with the next steps please.

[cp8759]

Go to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal website and register the appeal. You don't need to give your appeal wording now, just write something like "full details to follow", this will stop the 28 day clock from running down and we can worry about it in the new year.

When the tribunal emails you a deadline to submit your full appeal, let us know and we'll tell you what to do next.

Oh and stop hiding dates from documents, I have no idea if your 28 days have already expired though hopefully not.

[bigpoppa]

Go to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal website and register the appeal. You don't need to give your appeal wording now, just write something like "full details to follow", this will stop the 28 day clock from running down and we can worry about it in the new year.

When the tribunal emails you a deadline to submit your full appeal, let us know and we'll tell you what to do next.

Oh and stop hiding dates from documents, I have no idea if your 28 days have already expired though hopefully not.

Thank you. I have registered the appeal and have received the following message-

What you need to do:
Keep an eye out for any emails relating to your appeal and follow the instructions given.

You can access your appeal at any time by logging into this portal. Here you can see the current status of your appeal and check any actions required by you. You can also add more evidence to support your claim if you wish by selecting the Evidence tab at the top of the page.

The 28 days would have expired on 26/12 and I will not hide any future dates. Thanks.

[bigpoppa]

Go to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal website and register the appeal. You don't need to give your appeal wording now, just write something like "full details to follow", this will stop the 28 day clock from running down and we can worry about it in the new year.

When the tribunal emails you a deadline to submit your full appeal, let us know and we'll tell you what to do next.

Oh and stop hiding dates from documents, I have no idea if your 28 days have already expired though hopefully not.

They have now emailed me and said that The Authority has uploaded its evidence and I have to review the evidence the Authority has uploaded. I have 7 days to do this and add my own evidence and comments.

I also have 2 choices -


‘I would like the Adjudicator to decide my case now’
The appeal will be decided by an independent Traffic Penalty Tribunal Adjudicator online, based on the circumstances of the case and evidence submitted.

or:

‘I would like a Telephone Hearing’
You will have the chance to discuss your case further with a Traffic Penalty Tribunal Adjudicator and the Authority during a Telephone Hearing.

When selecting this option, you will need to tell us about your availability for the hearing. We will then contact you to arrange a suitable date and time.

What would be the best way forward? Thanks.

[cp8759]

Download all the council evidence and put it on a file sharing site like dropbox or google drive so we can take a look.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 - 17:11

[bigpoppa]

Thank you.

Here is the link to all the evidence as requested - https://docdro.id/VkZuJSL

Looks like I have to select my decision option by 16/01/2020.
If I do not select either option by 16/01/2020 my case will go to the adjudicator to decide. Should I go for a telephone hearing?



This post has been edited by bigpoppa: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 - 18:05

[hcandersen]

I wouldn't.

Your reps were nonsense, clearly lifted from goodness knows what website. I am not confident that you could be relied upon to put the substantive case, which relates to procedure, clearly, unemotionally and succinctly.

In writing would be my recommended option, starting with a recognition that perhaps you were in the wrong but even taking this into account you would none the less ask that the authority's confusing and improper NOR, in which the owner is recommended to 'read through each section carefully' should still be examined as regards their regulatory obligations.

Section 1 states ****** which relates to the procedures and timescales for making payment and appealing. However, as regards payment, this is immediately contradicted by Section 3 which states ****. Section 4 is ambiguous because on the one hand it carries the logo and title of the Traffic Penalty Tribunal and refers to 'our website'', thereby clearly giving the impression that it is sourced from the Tribunal, however this also makes reference to the timescale for making an appeal - ******** - which contradicts what is stated in Section 1.

By the time the reader gets to Section 5, the meaning of '28 days' in the phrase 'If, after 28 days, you have taken no action' is, to say the least, unclear.

And nowhere does the NOR refer to the adjudicator's power to accept a late appeal etc.....

[cp8759]

I agree with hcandersen that you should ask for a decision on the papers, no disrespect but you're simply not equipped to deal with a telephone hearing. I don't see that many flaws in the Notice of Rejection, in fact the 28 day period is very consistently described as starting with the date of service of the notice, which is correct.

The only flaw I can see is that the NoR dos not explicitly state that the tribunal may permit a late appeal, but of course this ground has never been accepted at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. Still, you have nothing to lose so you might as well give it a go, here's a draft you can use: http://bit.ly/2RfOilE

You must replace the tribunal case number with the actual case number that's been emailed to you, and obviously replace your pepipoo user name with your real name. Then changed the red text to black, save the file as a PDF and upload it to the tribunal. Then ask for a postal decision and hope for the best.

[bigpoppa]

I agree with hcandersen that you should ask for a decision on the papers, no disrespect but you're simply not equipped to deal with a telephone hearing. I don't see that many flaws in the Notice of Rejection, in fact the 28 day period is very consistently described as starting with the date of service of the notice, which is correct.

The only flaw I can see is that the NoR dos not explicitly state that the tribunal may permit a late appeal, but of course this ground has never been accepted at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. Still, you have nothing to lose so you might as well give it a go, here's a draft you can use: http://bit.ly/2RfOilE

You must replace the tribunal case number with the actual case number that's been emailed to you, and obviously replace your pepipoo user name with your real name. Then changed the red text to black, save the file as a PDF and upload it to the tribunal. Then ask for a postal decision and hope for the best.

Thank you cp8759 for all you help and support is is very much appreciated and hcandersen.

I have uploaded the pdf after making the changes and submitted it this morning. Will let you know the outcome and keep my fingers crossed.

[hcandersen]

? cp..

Section 1 You have 28 days from the date this NOR was served to pay or appeal,

immediately contradicted by..

Section 3 ..Payment...28 days beginning on the date of service...

Section 4.. you should appeal before the end of the period of 28 days beginning on the date this notice was delivered

Section 5.. if after 28 days you take no action.... .........action as regards what, there are 2 separate possible actions i.e. to pay or appeal??

Hardly consistent or understandable.

[cp8759]

Section 1:

You now have 28 days from the date of this Notice of Rejection being served to pay the Penalty Charge or to appeal to an independent parking adjudicator

This is correct.

Section 3:

This must be paid BEFORE the end of 28 days, beginning with the date of service of this notice

Also seems correct and it says exactly the same thing, I don't see a contradiction.

Section 5 obviously means "if you take no action at all", this is self-evident.

Ii take your point regarding section 4 however this is part of the template supplied to councils by the tribunal, so even though it makes reference to "delivery" I doubt an adjudicator would allow an appeal on this basis. I think that in the round, an adjudicator would say the recipient would understand the deadline. If I thought that adding something about this would increase the chances of success by 1% or more Ii would write an addendum to the appeal, but I'm not convinced it would make that much of a difference.

[bigpoppa]

Section 1:

You now have 28 days from the date of this Notice of Rejection being served to pay the Penalty Charge or to appeal to an independent parking adjudicator

This is correct.

Section 3:

This must be paid BEFORE the end of 28 days, beginning with the date of service of this notice

Also seems correct and it says exactly the same thing, I don't see a contradiction.

Section 5 obviously means "if you take no action at all", this is self-evident.

Ii take your point regarding section 4 however this is part of the template supplied to councils by the tribunal, so even though it makes reference to "delivery" I doubt an adjudicator would allow an appeal on this basis. I think that in the round, an adjudicator would say the recipient would understand the deadline. If I thought that adding something about this would increase the chances of success by 1% or more Ii would write an addendum to the appeal, but I'm not convinced it would make that much of a difference.

Hi Guys I lost the appeal today. Thanks for all your support once again. Got this messgage back from them -

xxxxxxxx submits that the alleged contravention did not occur. The Traffic Regulation does not define ‘restricted street’

The Civil Enforcement Officer’s notes and photographs establish that this car parked adjacent to an adequate single yellow line, near a conspicuous sign plate indicating the times during which waiting is prohibited.

The contravention code used in the penalty charge notice is Code 001.
‘Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours’.

This is taken from a list of codes, adopted by Local Authorities in the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions. It is lawfully used and summarises the essence of this alleged contravention. The ‘restricted street’ is so as it is restricted by virtue of yellow lines. The double yellow lines serve to prescribe the hours - at all times.
The Traffic Regulation Orders provide for the restriction at this location.

The highway includes the footway as well as the carriageway. The extent of the highway is indicated by its natural boundary which may be to the building line. This is a matter of fact in any particular case. The highway can include private land. The restriction includes the width of the public highway from the middle of the carriageway to the building line.
I find that the Council has established that the vehicle was parked as claimed in the Penalty Charge Notice. The penalty charge remains payable to the Council.

[hcandersen]

Too late now, but my PI points were perfectly valid: cp must have been looking at a different set of regs:

You now have 28 days from the date of this Notice of Rejection being served to pay the Penalty Charge or to appeal to an independent parking adjudicator

This is correct.

No it isn't. Never 'from', always beginning on.

Which proves the next point where the payment reference was stated correctly. The next two references referred to making appeals only and were contradictory.

You were never going to win on the issue of the contravention.