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Possible totting up, On 9 points, maybe about to get 3 more
Blink
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 07:15
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Ok, I’ll keep this brief, it’s my first post so please be gentle...

I’m on 9 points currently, 3 due to come off in October. 1 week ago, my partner and I were travelling down the M74 in Scotland and we passed a camera van. I think the Speedo was reading 80/82, I’m not sure.

Firstly, what is the likliehood of an NIP as the actual speed may have been 77?
Secondly, how clear are the photographs from the mobile vans parked on bridges?
The van was also parked on the bridge round a bend on the m74 so only visible last minute.

Thirdly, if I am identified as the driver, am I looking at a ban? Can I drag it out until I’m back to 6 points in October (middle of) or will the court take the date of offence or the date of conviction as to apply the points?

Are they likely to send photographic evidence with the NiP?

Thanks in advance

This post has been edited by Blink: Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 07:17
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post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 07:15
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NewJudge
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 07:37
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The date of the offence is what counts for "totting up".

Why do you ask about the clarity of the photographs? You're not considering naming somebody else are you? You can ask for photographs to help identify the driver if and when you get a NIP.

A possible route for offences in Scotland is to return the request for driver's details unsigned (search this forum for details).
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Blink
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 08:03
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Thank you for your reply.
I’ve searched for unsigned and I’m getting lots of old threads. Is this still a valid method? I live in England not Scotland too.

Also, I won’t be naming anyone else if it’s me shown as driving.
I’m kinda hoping that being just a few weeks away of being back on 6 points we won’t be receiving the NIP and I won’t lose my job, and my home.
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BaggieBoy
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 08:09
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QUOTE (Blink @ Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 09:03) *
I’ve searched for unsigned and I’m getting lots of old threads. Is this still a valid method? I live in England not Scotland too.

Where you live is immaterial, it's where the offence took place. As far as are aware there has not been a single successful prosecution when the S172 notice has been returned unsigned.

QUOTE (Blink @ Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 09:03) *
Also, I won’t be naming anyone else if it’s me shown as driving.

As Fredd said on another thread this morning, weaselly words indeed. The RK must correctly name the driver regardless of what the photographs show. Doing otherwise risks escalating the offence to one where a prison sentence is highly likely.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 08:22
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As you seem to know very well who was driving, why do the photos matter?

Prosecution action will start at 79mph so it’s possible you are just under that speed.


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nigelbb
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 10:19
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It's probably stating the obvious but if I had 9 points on my licence I would be driving around like a nun with L-plates


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British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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southpaw82
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 10:30
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QUOTE (Blink @ Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 09:03) *
Also, I won’t be naming anyone else if it’s me shown as driving.

What do you think you’ll do if the photos don’t clearly show who’s driving?


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Blink
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 12:33
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 11:30) *
QUOTE (Blink @ Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 09:03) *
Also, I won’t be naming anyone else if it’s me shown as driving.

What do you think you’ll do if the photos don’t clearly show who’s driving?

Well I won’t be denying or lying about the driver? I’ll seek legal advice.
My question was more about delaying it until my 3 points come off in October ( by asking for and possibly questioning the photo if there is one?) and then hopefully rendering me back on 9 points, IF the NIP comes through. Perhaps I should have made that clearer.

As regards the 79mph and below not being prosecuted, not sure that’s entirely true. 2 years ago I got hit with 3 pts and £100 fine for doing 75mph in a 70.. hence my nervousness about this one.

Also, I have been driving like a nun with L plates. I had an emergency family matter, I won’t go into details as it’s irrelevant anyway, but I’ve had a really bad 2 years inc mental illness issues. Again, not relevant and won’t help.

Feel a bit like I’m being shot to flames for asking for advice here.
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southpaw82
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 12:45
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QUOTE (Blink @ Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 13:33) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 11:30) *
QUOTE (Blink @ Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 09:03) *
Also, I won’t be naming anyone else if it’s me shown as driving.

What do you think you’ll do if the photos don’t clearly show who’s driving?

Well I won’t be denying or lying about the driver? I’ll seek legal advice.


I can probably save you the effort. The photograph doesn’t have to identify the driver at all, that’s the purpose of the s 172 notice. Not sure what other advice you can be given in respect of an unclear photo.

QUOTE
My question was more about delaying it until my 3 points come off in October ( by asking for and possibly questioning the photo if there is one?) and then hopefully rendering me back on 9 points, IF the NIP comes through. Perhaps I should have made that clearer.


I think that’s been answered - it’s the points at the date of the offence that matter, so if you were on 9 at the date of the offence you’re vulnerable to a totting ban, regardless of any points expiring after that date.

QUOTE
Feel a bit like I’m being shot to flames for asking for advice here.

I think it’s rather more that people don’t want you to do anything stupid and risk going to prison.


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Blink
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 12:48
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Thank you.. looks like I’ll just have to cross my fingers and wait then. Luck certainly hasn’t been on my side.
I certainly won’t be doing anything to risk prison. I just don’t want to lose my job / home etc.
Points at the date of offence is the main thing so I guess that’s that then.
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DancingDad
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 13:04
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Unclear photo and legal advice?
The only correct legal advice you will get is don't lie, that way lies possibility of Perverting the Course of Justice charges and prison time.
If worst does happen, you will be looking to make an exceptional hardship plea to avoid automatic totting ban.
Courts will not be bothered about you losing job but losing house may be, if it affects others, wife, partner, kids ??
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Blink
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 13:32
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If I lost my job I wouldn’t be able to provide a home for my daughter, and I have shared parental responsibility with my ex wife. I wouldn’t be able to do my job, or pay my mortgage and other financial commitments inc maintenance.
At no point have I said I’d lie? The legal advice would be how to and possibly have someone represent me for the hardship case if it’s even feasible, having never been in this situation with 23 years driving 30k miles per year, I have no idea what I can do and what will happen.
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southpaw82
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 14:05
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QUOTE (Blink @ Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 14:32) *
At no point have I said I’d lie?


No but you gave an indication that you were considering doing so if the photo didn’t show it was you. Whether that was intended or not that’s why people were so wary of it.


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Blink
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 14:22
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 15:05) *
QUOTE (Blink @ Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 14:32) *
At no point have I said I’d lie?


No but you gave an indication that you were considering doing so if the photo didn’t show it was you. Whether that was intended or not that’s why people were so wary of it.

As I said, it was about trying to delay the prosecution if it wasn’t clear, by asking them for a photo (if it doesn’t come with the NIP), as I’m not sure if one does from a camera ban on a bridge, but that’s also been cleared up as it’s the date of offence not date of prosecution that matters.
I’m not the best communicator in the mornings due to medication.

It’s just a waiting game now.
Just feeling sorry for myself as I’ve has two years of hell and now this on top of everything else.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 07:15
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All you can do is wait for any NIP, as I indicated earlier you are going to be close to the cut off threshold anyway.

Shame it was Scotland in one way as you would have qualified for a course in England, but unsigned will remain an option.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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