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Alleged Bus Lane Contravention - Oxford Road Manchester
overlook
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 15:53
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Hi

New to the forum as I've only just received a PCN and found your site....nice place to be!

The alleged contravention is much posted on here - Oxford Road Manchester (Nelson Street to Hathersage Road)

Think the only representation I can make is that bloody stupid signage.
I didn't know I had done it until I received the charge.

Detection date: 19/01/18
PCN date of posting: 01/02/18

Any help or advice welcome.

Ps....is it legal to post the actual CCTV shot on this site?

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post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 15:53
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 15:58
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IIRC the council say no. There is adebate going on about this, but in honesty if you were in the bus only st no need. But post all the PCN.

And give us a narrative of the route you took


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overlook
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 16:54
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Cheers @pastmybest

Visiting elderly relative who had been taken into hospital.
Didn't know the area so was very mindful.
Came out of the multi storey carpark in the dark and rain.
I was travelling down Grafton Street towards Oxford Road.
Turned left onto Oxford Road.
The bus lane control kicks in 80 yds or so further on after Nelson Street,
It's this section they're quoting " between Nelson St to Hathersage rd" where I turned.

PCN attachedAttached File  bus_lane_PCN_February_2018001.pdf ( 552.83K ) Number of downloads: 219
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 17:05
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Ok. I'm working on a draft for this location on the basis of signage will be in the next day or so


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stamfordman
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 17:07
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Not sure what you mean by CCTV but we post video of moving traffic contraventions here all the time.

The bus gate ends at 9pm but you were timed at 8.20.

The advance signage is reckoned not to be great.
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 17:10
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 17:07) *
Not sure what you mean by CCTV but we post video of moving traffic contraventions here all the time.

The bus gate ends at 9pm but you were timed at 8.20.

The advance signage is reckoned not to be great.


Stamf Manchester are threatening prosecution, so no need to risk it if we know the location and the OP admits entering the gate


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stamfordman
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 17:19
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 17:10) *
Stamf Manchester are threatening prosecution, so no need to risk it if we know the location and the OP admits entering the gate


Sorry yes it rings a bell now. Maybe we can view privately - there can be things like a bus obscuring signs or not lit up.
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 17:30
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 17:19) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 17:10) *
Stamf Manchester are threatening prosecution, so no need to risk it if we know the location and the OP admits entering the gate


Sorry yes it rings a bell now. Maybe we can view privately - there can be things like a bus obscuring signs or not lit up.



that's a fair point Pm's


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overlook
post Tue, 6 Feb 2018 - 08:48
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Still not able to get CCTV on ViewMyPCN. It says "there is a delay in processing the request.....the site may be delayed during periods of high demand" No wonder!!!
Still only have the still camera shot.
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 6 Feb 2018 - 09:09
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QUOTE (overlook @ Tue, 6 Feb 2018 - 08:48) *
Still not able to get CCTV on ViewMyPCN. It says "there is a delay in processing the request.....the site may be delayed during periods of high demand" No wonder!!!
Still only have the still camera shot.



no worries, there is time. just keep the thread current


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overlook
post Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 10:00
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Hi

Still unable to access the CCTV for this.

I've attached a photo I took of the road in question, at the junction of Grafton St and Oxford Rd.
The amount of signage is alarm overload, all this whilst you're looking at the road too.
(The bus pictured has just entered the bus gate)

If the intention of the council is to aid bus flow (ok admirable) and the design and implementation of the scheme is not disproportionate to the number of "offenders" then surely the question that has to be asked is; Is the number of offenders disproportionate or not?

Is the number of offenders on this stretch available under the freedom of information act?

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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 10:28
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QUOTE (overlook @ Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 10:00) *
Hi

Still unable to access the CCTV for this.

I've attached a photo I took of the road in question, at the junction of Grafton St and Oxford Rd.
The amount of signage is alarm overload, all this whilst you're looking at the road too.
(The bus pictured has just entered the bus gate)

If the intention of the council is to aid bus flow (ok admirable) and the design and implementation of the scheme is not disproportionate to the number of "offenders" then surely the question that has to be asked is; Is the number of offenders disproportionate or not?

Is the number of offenders on this stretch available under the freedom of information act?



I'll tell you in a couple of weeks when i get a response. It will not be before you need to make reps to the council ( i will finish my suggested draft at weekend) but might lend support at adjudication

Your photo has not attached by the way. Try an external hosting site like flicker

This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 10:29


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overlook
post Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 10:40
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cheers @PMB

here's the photo mentioned above:

Attached Image
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cp8759
post Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 23:17
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 17:10) *
Stamf Manchester are threatening prosecution, so no need to risk it if we know the location and the OP admits entering the gate

Just out of interest, they're threatening prosecution of whom / for what? I cannot think of any law that would prevent the CCTV from being posted online (Note I'm not advocating it should be in this case, I just don't see how Manchester could legally threaten anyone for posting a video of a bus lane contravention).


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John U.K.
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 14:32
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QUOTE
Just out of interest, they're threatening prosecution of whom / for what? I cannot think of any law that would prevent the CCTV from being posted online (Note I'm not advocating it should be in this case, I just don't see how Manchester could legally threaten anyone for posting a video of a bus lane contravention).


Not just Manchester: from this thread
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=118524
QUOTE
I can’t post the video as Islington have made it clear when they sent it to me that I would be liable for prosecution if I share or distribute. Also don’t want to post any of the documents as I work for the borough and my cousin works for parking, something he has to let them know when he was originally tasked with responding to my representations.
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cp8759
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:01
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QUOTE (John U.K. @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 14:32) *
QUOTE
Just out of interest, they're threatening prosecution of whom / for what? I cannot think of any law that would prevent the CCTV from being posted online (Note I'm not advocating it should be in this case, I just don't see how Manchester could legally threaten anyone for posting a video of a bus lane contravention).


Not just Manchester: from this thread
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=118524
QUOTE
I can’t post the video as Islington have made it clear when they sent it to me that I would be liable for prosecution if I share or distribute. Also don’t want to post any of the documents as I work for the borough and my cousin works for parking, something he has to let them know when he was originally tasked with responding to my representations.


FWIW I think it's a load of BS, prosecution for what? Breach of the "Prohibition Against the Posting on PePiPoo.com of Video Evidence of Contraventions Act"?

People have posted footage of the London terrorist attacks online and the Met didn't even seem bothered, but now councils can prosecute you for posting bus lane videos online? This is plainly an empty threat and they may well be doing it due to losing so much revenue because of this site.


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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:42
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:01) *
QUOTE (John U.K. @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 14:32) *
QUOTE
Just out of interest, they're threatening prosecution of whom / for what? I cannot think of any law that would prevent the CCTV from being posted online (Note I'm not advocating it should be in this case, I just don't see how Manchester could legally threaten anyone for posting a video of a bus lane contravention).


Not just Manchester: from this thread
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=118524
QUOTE
I can’t post the video as Islington have made it clear when they sent it to me that I would be liable for prosecution if I share or distribute. Also don’t want to post any of the documents as I work for the borough and my cousin works for parking, something he has to let them know when he was originally tasked with responding to my representations.


FWIW I think it's a load of BS, prosecution for what? Breach of the "Prohibition Against the Posting on PePiPoo.com of Video Evidence of Contraventions Act"?

People have posted footage of the London terrorist attacks online and the Met didn't even seem bothered, but now councils can prosecute you for posting bus lane videos online? This is plainly an empty threat and they may well be doing it due to losing so much revenue because of this site.


No doubt you are right, but we know the location pretty well so really no reason to ask an OP to risk it, until we have a clearer picture


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cp8759
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:50
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:42) *
No doubt you are right, but we know the location pretty well so really no reason to ask an OP to risk it, until we have a clearer picture

As I've said I'm not advocating otherwise for this thread, I'm making a general point. Making unwarranted threats that curtail a motorist's ability to obtain legal advice might in itself amount to a PI / abuse of process and I doubt many adjudicators would be impressed.


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John U.K.
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 19:22
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QUOTE
FWIW I think it's a load of BS, prosecution for what?


Posssibly breach of copyright and/or might try it on with Data Protection
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TryMar
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 19:28
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Hi,

I was looking for some help for this absurd PCN and ended up in this forum. I can quite clearly see that many others like me are in the same situation.

First time driving in Manchester, religiously following the navigator's instruction (2016 version) and driven the car as usual, the oxford street signs are of course everywhere... and difficult to understand the IQ of council to have so many confusing road signs.... but never remember violating any road sign... then got this PCN on bus lane contravention in oxford street.

In the CCTV photograph of my car, you will notice that there is no bus lane visible. I am just struggling to understand if the council is really serious on making the road safe for all or such a trap is for earning money.... as nowadays it looks that greedy people/organization can go to any level to cut your pocket....

We must do something all together, otherwise many others will be victimized

Any help would be highly appreciated.

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