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Gladstone's court claim
Frustrated_Board...
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 21:51
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I received a PCN from armtrac on my car Jan 2017 for parking on an access road to my gated permitted residential car park, parked in access road as gates to car park were broken (went out early next morning to move car and found ticket); refused to pay as not our fault etc and in any case also realised that the no parking signs were all at the entrances to the residents car parks (access road serves 3 Apartments blocks each with private parking) and didn't mention the road at all - no road markings on road which just looks like a normal road. Continued to defend actions to armtrac then Gladstone's and have received court forms this morning... Genuinely think it's crap but the forms are scary!!
Advice for filling forms please...??
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post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 21:51
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Redivi
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 22:29
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First step is to follow the instructions to Acknowledge service

This gives an extra 14 days to send the defence

You do not contest jurisdiction (unless you live in Scotland)
You dispute all of the debt
Do not put anything at all in the defence box

Second step is to see what your lease says about parking

Residential claims are relatively easy to defend, especially if they were issued by he incompetent Gladstones that hasn't seen any of Armtrac's documents
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Eljayjay
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 22:30
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What’s your status as a resident?

If you are the leasehold owner of a property on the development, you need to find your lease.

If you are the tenant of a buy-to-rent landlord, you need a copy of your landlord’s head lease and your tenancy agreement.

Acknowledge service of the claim without delay but leave the defence entirely blank at this stage. This will give you extra time to prepare your defence.

You should have been sent a letter before claim. What did you say in reply to it?
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Frustrated_Board...
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 00:00
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Thanks. I am a tennant - there is zilch in my tenancy agreement about parking at all! We have a permit and am allocated space (within our gated car park) and there are signs next to the entrance of all the car parks stating the rules of parking within a bay etc but no mention of access area. I said in my initial response to Gladstone we were initially 'charged' with 'unauthorised parking without a permit' but as the accompanying pics were of my car displaying it's permit clearly in the windscreen it was a ridiculous charge; Gladstones response was that if we have a permit 'it is reasonable to assume we know the rules of parking' and then sent us the court forms!

The whole thing should've been avoided as when I told our letting agents about the fine back in Jan 2017 they responded saying they would take care of it but then didn't do a thing and when I got the increased fine notification and contacted the agent their reply was 'oh we're not dealing with paying issues anymore'.... 🙄

To Reiterate, there is no mention of parking rules in our tenancy agreement (the handing over of our permit was all that was done), the access road looks like a regular turning off a regular road, no lines or markings of any sort, and there is no mention of access road in the signage.... I'll see if I can find one of the (many) pics of the signage, it's pretty standard.
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Frustrated_Board...
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 00:22
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Attached Image


These are screenshots of an armtrac sign I found online, ours are identical except where it says 'pay and display ticket' ours says 'permit'...
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Redivi
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 00:27
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Following the judge ordering further particulars of claim, I've just written an amended defence for another residential case involving a gated car park with allocated spaces and a management agent failing to keep its promise to order the parking notice cancelled

IIRC Eljayjay has recently done the same

An interesting phrase in my client's lease is the right of the tenant, his family and visitors to pass and repass all the roads and driveways

As well as the usual defence points for residential cases, include your reasonable belief that Armtrac has issued the tickets outside the area that it was contracted to patrol, as evidenced by the complete absence of signs and road markings
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ostell
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 07:14
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Get some photos of the area where the car was parked to show lack of signage, before they add signs.

This is frustration of any alleged contract.

So you have an allocated spacw. Who allocated the space, ie how did you find out which space you had?
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Eljayjay
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 09:35
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The simple fact that you have been issued with a permit suggests that its provider believes that you have a right to park.

It may not say anything about that right in your tenancy agreement; however, on the assumption that your landlord is the buy-to-rent leasehold owner of the property, a right to park is almost certainly granted to him/her in his/her head lease.

So, you need to find out what the head lease has to say on the matter.

Your landlord should have provided a copy of the head lease to you because it will contain covenants of which he/she should have made you aware; however, if he/she is reluctant to provide you with the document, you can obtain a copy of the lease from the Land Registry by completing form OC2 and paying a fee.

Residential cases are usually fairly easy to defend, but you need to arm yourself with the head lease.
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cabbyman
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 18:52
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if the 'offence' occurred outside the gated area, is it still on 'estate' land? Do you know the boundaries of the estate? Is there a possibility it could be roadway maintained at public expense?


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Eljayjay
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 23:38
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Of course, if the roadway is not private land, the parking company should not be issuing tickets there.

On the assumption that the roadway is part of the development, the head lease could be vitally important.

As the gates to the car park were broken, if the OP can show that he/she had a right to park in the car park, he/she could probably reclaim any parking charge from the party to the lease responsible for keeping the gates in working order. That party may well be the parking company’s principal.

This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 23:39
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Frustrated_Board...
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 20:10
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Thanks for replying! I don't know what the headlease says, or even what one is?? I guess I was hoping to base my defense on only parking on the road as access to our space was blocked through no fault of our own, but also parking regs are very poorly signed - I have tried to upload a picture but the access road leading off the public road looks exactly like a normal road and the Armtrac signs are attached next to the entrance of each separate car park, and make no reference to access roads? In the council car parks in our area with access roads there is very obvious signs stipulating no parking on access roads, no parking on verges, etc.

Just to reiterate, We are tennants in one of the apartments in one of the blocks that apparently all share an access road to the gates of the individual apartments. There are signs attached to the fences, next to the gateways/entryways of Each car park starting rules of parking referencing parking In bays etc, no mention of access roads. When we took on the apartment and signed the lease there was No mention of any agreement with regard to the carpark apart from, Here is your permit, your space is number XX.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 08:11
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Its the lease directly between the dfreeholder and the top leaseholder.

If there is no mention of the access ways being restricted from parking, then of course that is included.
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Frustrated_Board...
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 09:12
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I don't understand what you mean? By freeholder and top leaseholder? I'm a tennant, surely my contract is with the letting agent?
And in any case there is no mention on the road of no parking... Should I be taking this up with the letting agent?? Although surely it's past that now as I'm named on the court order?

To repeat, we've never been given any information in writing or even verbally about the car park and permit except to be handed our permit and told our space number...
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ostell
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 09:17
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Here's a case on legal beagles that looks all to familiar. That one has gone to MCOL so it looks as though they may be trying one to see what happens.

If it is the same then get together
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 09:51
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Then you need to get out of this thread and read around

Freeholder - the entity who ACTUALLY OWNS THE LAND
Head Leaseholder - the first leaseholder who leases the land / buildings etc from the freeholder for a set period of time. This might be your landlord, or it could be a company that leases all the buildings and then leases the individual flats etc to your landlord.

As a tenant, your rights are goverend by your lease AND by the head lease - you cant be promised something the landlord hasnt got rights to give. It is almost certain that there is NO MENTION in this lease of ANYTHING to do with a permit scheme. Because it would make the lease exceedingly poor value.

You need to get this all together now, into a defence we can see and refine.
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Eljayjay
post Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 13:58
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Armed with nosferatu1001's explanation and your own research, you should now know what a head lease is.

To check that your flat is a leasehold property, visit https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry, click Start Now, enter your flat number and your postcode, and click Search.

I suspect that two entries will appear: "Tenure: Freehold"; and "Tenure: Leasehold". If "Tenure: Leasehold" appears, there must be a head lease and you will be able to obtain a copy of the head lease from the Land Registry.

Unfortunately, you cannot obtain the head lease online. Instead, you need to complete a form OC2 which you will need to hand-in at or mail to the Land Registry with the appropriate fee.

Once you have obtained the head lease, report back here and we shall tell you for what you need to search in it.
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ostell
post Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 15:43
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Is this the location
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cabbyman
post Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 19:46
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If so, the local authority need to be asked if the road has been adopted. There is a stone nameboard to the right which MAY indicated the boundary, but it needs checking in detail.


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ostell
post Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 21:58
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There seems to be 2 people suffering from the the attentions of Armtrac at this location and for the broken gates. One is on the legal beagles forum and has got to court and the other is here. If it is two seperate people then I wish they would talk to each other !!!
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