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Unfair Armtrac parking ticket!
Davids2000
post Sat, 4 May 2013 - 20:45
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I parked outside a local post office this evening to nip into the Chinese and pick up my pre order. Left my car for no longer than 2 minutes and I come back to find a guy in a black bomber jacket putting a ticket on my car.

I said hold on I've literally been gone for 2 minutes and he said he gave me plenty of time (bull) before he printed the ticket. He stood in the way of the car so I couldn't get in and proceeded totals photos of my car with his camera phone.

The bays are reserved for a local fish merchants however it was a Saturday night, no bays were in use and none were needed. I didn't see any signs to make me aware that they were privately being patrolled and I have parked here many times for the past 8 years!

The fine is for £100 reduced to £60 if I pay in 14 days. It gives me options to appeal on the back of the ticket and says a bunch of legal stuff and what happens if I don't pay.

Has anyone got any advice? I had literally left my car for less than 2 minutes, the chap must have been hiding somewhere and jumped out the instant he saw me park up!

This post has been edited by Davids2000: Mon, 6 May 2013 - 20:05
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post Sat, 4 May 2013 - 20:45
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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 4 May 2013 - 20:53
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It's not a fine! You won't be paying this but there are a few hoops to jump through - unless you are happy to ignore it and the debt collector letters that will otherwise follow.

You can ignore it or appeal it, and then take the matter to POPLA where you should win. But as this was a windscreen PCN please DO NOT APPEAL YET.

Wait for the registered keeper (if that's you) to receive a Notice to Keeper then please post back here to show us the paperwork (with all ID details suitably covered).
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Davids2000
post Sat, 4 May 2013 - 20:57
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I only bought the car last weekend so I don't know if the old owner would receive this.

I'll ignore for now and see what happens!

My friend used to work for them and he told me you don't actually have to pay. But they was a few years ago and I don't know if things have changed. It looks like another company owns them anyway KBT or something!

Cheers for the help
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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 4 May 2013 - 21:04
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You still do not have to pay and you can ignore it if happy to do so - just file all the letters but DON'T throw them away in case of a future small claim.

But personally I would appeal when you get the NTK, and then win it at POPLA because that's Armtrac stuffed at their own expense! POPLA costs the PPCs money every time and we know how to word a likely winning appeal.

Just wait for the NTK which should indeed come to you if the DVLA have been informed of the date you became the new owner.
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Davids2000
post Sat, 4 May 2013 - 21:06
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Ok I will post back when I get the notice to keeper.

Cheers for the advice!
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Davids2000
post Tue, 10 Sep 2013 - 09:29
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Well today I ahve finally heard from Armtrac... see the letter below.

Any advice for this? It has been about 4 months since I got the ticket!

This post has been edited by Davids2000: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 - 10:38
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Gan
post Tue, 10 Sep 2013 - 09:51
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Remove that letter now

You've left your name, registration and PCN number - any one of which will identify you

They've left it far too late to hold the keeper liable but that's no use if you've identified yourself as driver

Interesting clumsy attempt to refuse challenges from keepers
Worth complaints to DVLA and Trading Standards that they're not following the BPA Code of Practice
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Davids2000
post Tue, 10 Sep 2013 - 10:39
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So should I ignore it or take action?

It also has the wrong registration number on it as I have a private plate.

This post has been edited by Davids2000: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 - 10:44
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instrumentsofjoy
post Tue, 10 Sep 2013 - 11:06
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QUOTE (Gan @ Tue, 10 Sep 2013 - 10:51) *
....
Interesting clumsy attempt to refuse challenges from keepers
Worth complaints to DVLA and Trading Standards that they're not following the BPA Code of Practice


Not read the letter but if as I suspect they are saying some variation of "liability of the PCN lies with the driver at the time the vehicle was observed" then it is total horlicks and I am informed by Steve Clark, Head of Operations at the BPA that all members of the AOS were informed of this in July.

Steve Clark <Steve.C@britishparking.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Your complaint to the DVLA
Date: 22 July 2013 17:17:46 GMT+01:00
Cc: Elizabeth M Symons (Elizabeth.Symons@dvla.gsi.gov.uk) <Elizabeth.Symons@dvla.gsi.gov.uk>

From the answer to the original complaint.

Dear ..........

Thanks for your e-mail

This message has been relayed to all AOS Members as a reminder


From the original answer

" To say that only the driver can appeal is not therefore correct and I have asked Excel to cease stating this on their paperwork with immediate effect.




Gan is absolutely correct so get a good complaint in and point out that they are not following the CoP despite being warned to do so.
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Davids2000
post Tue, 10 Sep 2013 - 11:18
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Armtrac

Ok here is the letter with everything removed.

Do I need to to use the form in the letter? Who can help me get together a decent letter?
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Davids2000
post Tue, 10 Sep 2013 - 18:17
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Can anyone help?
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MMM
post Wed, 11 Sep 2013 - 01:53
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Hi D2000

There is NO requirement for you to complete the form they have sent you and I would advise against using it as it gives them information to their advantage.

At this stage I would just send a short "soft" appeal letter (use forum search bottom left to find examples) and request that they send you a POPLA code if they reject your "appeal". It does not need to be lengthy, you could add something along the lines "as your correspondence to me contains a number of breaches of the BPA Ltd CoP I wish to refer this matter to POPLA for independent adjudication therefore please send me a POPLA code so that this matter can be examined further" or some such.

If they reject your appeal (which they will almost inevitably do) they must send you the code.

Dont lose any sleep at this stage, a short soft appeal to see if you can get the code, this lot are not the sharpest knives in the drawer and will be easy to crush at POPLA.

Regards

MMM

This post has been edited by MMM: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 - 01:55
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Gan
post Wed, 11 Sep 2013 - 06:57
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I agree

Don't use their form
Get a receipt from the post office when you send the letter
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MMM
post Wed, 11 Sep 2013 - 10:44
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D2000

Something like this should be enough

"Dear Sirs


I am writing to you regarding parking charge notice to keeper ------- issued to vehicle ------- on ----/2013. On ----/2013 I was the registered keeper of a vehicle ------.

I dispute the whole basis of the parking charge as it is disproportionate and punitive.

Your correspondence to me also contains a number of breaches of the BPA Ltd CoP. I therefore require you to either cancel the charge or provide me with a POPLA code so that I can refer the matter to POPLA for independent review and adjudication.

If I do not hear from you within 14 days (other than to receive a POPLA code) then I will assume this challenge has been successful; that you have also cancelled your invoice and that this matter is closed"

They cannot make your opportunity to appeal or challenge their invoice conditional upon you completing their silly form so just send a letter and as suggested above by Gan get proof of posting.

Best regards

MMM


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Davids2000
post Wed, 11 Sep 2013 - 14:01
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Thanks very much, I will get the letter sent today and let you know how I get on.
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Davids2000
post Thu, 26 Sep 2013 - 07:51
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Morning!

Armtrac have got back to me rejecting my appeal giving me 3 options.

Pay a reduced fine of £60.

Appeal using POPLA form enclosed.

Don't do anything and get a CCJ.

How do I go about sorting out a good POPLA appeal?
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instrumentsofjoy
post Thu, 26 Sep 2013 - 08:45
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QUOTE (Davids2000 @ Thu, 26 Sep 2013 - 08:51) *
How do I go about sorting out a good POPLA appeal?


This was posted here today.

Clearly works.

Adapt it for your circumstances.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=83742
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Davids2000
post Thu, 26 Sep 2013 - 08:57
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Thanks for that, I was thinking the same.

How do I get across the points that the car was parked for less than 2 minutes and that it took them over 60 days to send out the notice to keeper?
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