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PCN for parking on payed Hotel with private car park
DJSIDES
post Sun, 29 Mar 2020 - 17:36
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Hi.

This situation happened in a booked hotel with free private car park.
When the driver arrived there he saw the sign with the hotel name private car park. Got in but the car park was full. The driver left the car at the car park and went to the reception. The receptionist asked for booking ref. and was all good. The driver told him that the car was in the car park but it was full. Fortunately the car park across the road was free all weekend. The driver asked him if he needed the number plate and the receptionist told him that was not necessary and to just park the car across the road. All good right? Wrong.
This week the hirer received an email from the rent a car with an invoice to pay an administration fee and a PCN. They also say that they have provided the issuing authority with his details and that he will receive a new notice.
When the hirer checked the PCN he couldn't believe that it is for the time the car stayed in the hotels car park. The hirer tried to call the hotel but due to corona virus the hotel is closed until 14 of April, the hirer contacted them via email but no answer so far.
How should the hire proceed? Should he appeal directly with the parking company online? Send them the booking reference?

The hirer would really appreciate some help, thank you very much to all of you that help clueless people like him fighting this unfair PCN.

This post has been edited by DJSIDES: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 - 09:32
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post Sun, 29 Mar 2020 - 17:36
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ostell
post Sun, 29 Mar 2020 - 19:28
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So, so far all you have is a copy of the original PCN received by the rental company, correct? If so then wait for a copy addressed to you, the hirer. In the meantime edit the original post so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred, use "the driver ......" etc.

When you get your own letter then accompanying it should be a copy of the rental agreement and the PCN sent to the rental company. The rental company have named you as the hirer, the cannot name you as the driver as they weren't there. They are usually missing so your response should be:


Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the hirer/keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me, the hirer keeper..

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.

Send so that it arrives on day 19 after the date of the letter you receive so they can't correct it within the relevant period. First class mail with a free certificate of posting from a post office

For the charge then look at what the lease says about charges. If it doesn't cover private parking and just talks about penalties and fines then the have not complied with there own T&Cs.

Do this when you have got the charge cancelled to give you the moral high ground.

Still continue with trying to contact the hotel.
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DJSIDES
post Mon, 30 Mar 2020 - 09:56
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Hi, thank you for your reply.
The driver have got prove that he stayed at the hotel that day, wouldn't that show them that he had the right to be there as a customer of the hotel?
As hirer/keeper doesn' t that make the person liable for the PCN in case no driver is nominated?
The parking company have the option to appeal online, but nobody mention about appeals online, is there a reason?

This post has been edited by DJSIDES: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 - 08:31
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ostell
post Mon, 30 Mar 2020 - 10:16
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The hirer/keeper is only liable if they fully comply with the requirements of POFA. Here's the link to POFA, you should look at paragraph 14, particularly 14 (2) (a)

Showing them that the driver was at the hotel means nothing to them, the only real way is to get the hotel to cancel and provide you with proof of that.

The reason that you are asked to edit is that the PPCs read forums and if they can show the identity of the driver then they go for the driver and POFA failures will not help.

You get no proof if you appeal online,
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The Rookie
post Mon, 30 Mar 2020 - 10:46
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Your post still makes it too easy to ID the driver, please edit again starting with the very first word after Hi!


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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DJSIDES
post Mon, 30 Mar 2020 - 12:27
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Send so that it arrives on day 19 after the date of the letter you receive so they can't correct it within the relevant period.
Sorry to ask but can you explain this if you don't mind?
And if they refuse, is still possible to appeal with BPA? Would the booking ref. be usefull in a appeal to BPA?


This post has been edited by DJSIDES: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 - 12:41
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Jlc
post Mon, 30 Mar 2020 - 12:52
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The BPA is the association for parking. I think you mean POPLA as an 'independent' appeal.

But you need to be in right place for a successful appeal - heed the advice above.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ostell
post Mon, 30 Mar 2020 - 16:05
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For a notice to hirer the relevant period for delivering the notice to the hirer is 21 days. If you get in too early then they can correct and reissue. It's all in paragraph 14 of POFA if they are allowing longer to appeal then you can leave a little bit longer.

This post has been edited by ostell: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 - 16:08
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DJSIDES
post Wed, 1 Apr 2020 - 07:28
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Hi.
This is all very confusing so thank you very much for all the advice.
The hire is trying to contact the hotel but no reply from them. He left recorded messages and have send a few emails but nothing unfortunately. He is very stressed with all this. So what he needs to do for now is wait for is own letter to arrive, right?

This post has been edited by DJSIDES: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 - 08:37
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The Rookie
post Wed, 1 Apr 2020 - 07:58
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I don't know why you're talking about calling the hotel anyway, they will have no influence on the PCN, if it's not their land they have no influence on the parking company do they?

By all means give them hell for the wrong information but it won't help deal with the PCN.

And start following the advice given please, you are still tying the driver to the keeper, you need to use 'the driver' and 'the keeper'. Suggest a complete re-edit is still in order. That way the advice posts will tally with your edited accounts.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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DJSIDES
post Wed, 1 Apr 2020 - 09:04
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The hirer wants to know if the park belongs to the hotel, that would make them the landowner and maybe they can help their customers with situations like this.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 1 Apr 2020 - 13:17
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How about a Google Street View link? Sounds unlikely though.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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