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Unaware of court fine, No insurance
Nutjob
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 17:47
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Thanks in advance for any advice and help.

Long story but I'll try to cut it down and then expand in response to any questions you have.

Sold a car way back in January 2017; non-runner for spares or repair. I have a sale note signed by the buyer, with his address.
V5 could not be found and I then failed to notify DVLA of the sale for a long time, losing VED refund entirely.
I'm about to send form V888 for full history records.
My address changed a few months before selling the car so, having then sold it, there was no point in updating.
I then get fined by DVLA for the vehicle being kept on a road without insurance, notice passed on to me from old address. I missed a discount even though I had it in time (yes a recurring theme) and paid £100. I read around and understood I had no defence. I think you need a DVLA acknowledgement of sale.

Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago and a bailiff turns up at old address but finding occupant is not me, leaves no details and doesn't even say what company they are. I'm left in the lurch.
After phoning round I find it was Marstons relating to a Mags fine, again for no insurance. This time the DVLA penalty notice hadn't reached me. Court fine itself circa £350.
I understand I can make a section14 statutory declaration which requires me to appear in Court. I'm ok with that part but unsure how to proceed from there, assuming it is accepted.

Some questions then.
As far as I can make out I'm technically guilty and have no defence. Is that a foregone conclusion?

I can verify that I sold the vehicle prior to this penalty, e.g. cancelled insurance, new car purchased, signed sale note; will this possibly reduce the fine?

I can offer mitigation of my own delay in notifying the sale. I have a long term mental health difficulty. Not keen on discussing it here in detail but happy to if the court was interested.

Is this endorsable or is it only 6 points when actually driving?

Might have some questions about s14 and V888 forms as I'm finding them confusing.

Edit
Court fine was imposed 25/9/17 following penalty notice DVLA say sent 16/8/17

This post has been edited by Nutjob: Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 19:04
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post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 17:47
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Logician
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 19:13
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You need to be clear about this law, if you are the registered keeper you commit an offence if the vehicle is uninsured unless it is on a SORN. This is nothing to do with the car being on the road. You will go on getting fines until you correct the situation with the DVLA. Sending off a V888 will produce the information that the registered keeper is you, and will not help at all.

Fortunately the offence does not carry points, only using the car on the road with no insurance would carry points.


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Nutjob
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 19:23
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I am clear but sorry if my story wasn't. I've advised DVLA just not sure when but probably later than these offences.
They have confirmed on phone I'm no longer keeper.

I've since noted the vehicle has now been sorned, by someone.

Mainly interested in best way to handle current situation.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 19:26
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Either just pay the fine, or make a statutory declaration you were unaware of the proceedings and then plead guilty, it will give you a 33% discount off the fine.


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Nutjob
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 19:34
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Thanks.
So guilty is definitely the way to go, as I thought?

33% helps but can I try mitigation?

Will my limited income reduce the fine further, possibly?
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The Rookie
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 20:20
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What mitigation do you think you have? You were the registered keeper and failed to either insure the car or inform DVLA you weren’t, I see little scope for mitigation even with a condition I’m afraid.

If you are on a low income it will reduce the fine a bit yes.

A Stat Dec can be performed either via a solicitor for a nominal fee or through a magistrates court. To be automatically accepted it must be made within 21 days of you becoming aware although if a court can’t get an appointment in time it will not usually cause a problem.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Nutjob
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 21:17
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Thanks again.
I knew about the 21 days.

Reading round a few cases here I see that court attendance and procedure is second nature to people here.
I'm finding it a bit daunting as this will be my first appearance, for anything. I haven't a clue.

What I understand so far is
I will probably have to appear for a Mag to decide the declaration.
that I should plead guilty after the declaration is accepted.

erm, beyond that I'm lost.
Surely the Mag should be made aware that I'm only technically guilty and the only malice was on the part of the new
owner or a subsequent owner?
Also, perhaps, that I've already paid one penalty for the same thing.

If those things should be mentioned then when might the opportunity arise?


On the mitigation of health, I take your point but I'll come back to whether it's viable later.
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southpaw82
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 21:22
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Malice isn’t an ingredient of the offence and is pretty irrelevant but you can mention it if you like.


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Nutjob
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 21:28
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So best not to bother then?

Malice wasn't quite the word I meant but best I could think of.
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southpaw82
post Wed, 25 Apr 2018 - 22:10
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Intent? It does no harm to mention it but I doubt it will have much impact.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Logician
post Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 00:38
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You can say you could not find the V5C when you sold the car, and did not quite know what to do, so did nothing, thereby missing out on the VED refund that was due to you. You have a long term mental health difficulty that makes it difficult for you to cope with that sort of situation, and you buried your head in the sand. Anyone can say that, so some medical evidence of this would be very useful. Ask them to be lenient with the fine in the circumstances. It cannot do any harm and may help.


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