PCN 33e Manor Place Junction Braganza Street, Going to adjudicator tomorrow Options

[philforsure]

I have been issued about 12 tickets going through this junction, the majority of which have been canceled now.

I have paid two already, I was under the impression that I would only have to pay two. I appealed against 4. A while back I had called Southwark and they claimed all but three had been canceled. I received three letters back in the post one was a warning notice and the other two were rejected. Now 56 days later they send me another rejected appeal.

I am taking this to the adjudicator tomorrow to submit another appeal. Could someone please help me draft up an appeal as I have no idea what to say.

I have attached the rejection letter and pasted my original appeal below.

Dear Sir or Madam,
On-line challenge for JK02557417
On the grounds of:
I wish to make representations about this PCN for other reasons
Reason:
I wish to challenge my PCN for another reason
Further explanation :
Dear southwark council
The London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 provides, at paragraph 5 of Schedule 1, that :
Charge certificates
5(1) Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and the penalty charge to which it relates is not paid
before the end of the relevant period, the enforcing authority may serve on that person a statement (in this
paragraph referred to as a “charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in question is increased by 50
per cent.
(2) The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice is the period of 28 days beginning—
(a) where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above, with the date on which the penalty charge
notice is served;
The PCNs however wrongly state that :
If full payment has not been made before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of this notice
As the PCNs convey incorrect information regarding service of a Charge Certificate, cutting short the statutory
period by at least two days. It follows that the PCNs are invalid and must be cancelled.
There signage at this location also appears to be flawed.
1. TSRGD 2016 requires that a 953 sign at such a restriction must be accompanied by the road legend ‘BUS
GATE’.
As that legend is absent the signage is inadequate and non-compliant and as such no PCN can be valid.
2. The signage in the area is completely misleading and not adequate, not at eye level, and is on a bend, along
with the scaffolding that is in the area which doesn't make it easy at all to comprehend. There are no advance
warnings, despite this road being open for years on end. Many cars are still passing this road which is CLEAR
On-line challenges and representations service. Page 1/2
evidence that the sign is not adequate or clear.
I have personally called Southwark and have been advised that PCN's issued between the 26th Nov - 11th Dec,
will be cancelled due to the misleading signage which this PCN also falls into date with.
Thank you

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[PASTMYBEST]

So you joined a week ago, posting today that you have a hearing tomorrow and we no nothing. No sight of any PCN's that you are appealing no video all we see is an appeal taken from some of the points made be myself and others

Is that is what you have sent to the tribunal?

Have Southwark downloaded their evidence pack onto the tribunal portal. Have they included a copy of the video or just a link to it.

If just a link then that is contrary to the chief adjudicators practice direction of 4th April 2020 and you should ask that it be inadmissible

They are likely to have quoted a tribunal case in their summery It deals with a different point ( that the date for payment was quoted as the date of service of the PCN)

You will have to check on these as there is no time for us to help

[philforsure]

Hi, Thanks for getting back to me. I do not have a hearing tomorrow. I am taking this to the adjudicator tomorrow to submit another appeal.

My original appeal with Southwark was rejected. I need help drafting one to take it to the adjudicator.

[Neil B]

But we still haven't seen any paperwork?

[PASTMYBEST]

I have done many of these and have a variety of drafts ready to go but i cannot say which would apply to you without

make a onedrive or google drive folder for each with the pcn your reps the rejection and the video don't mix them up as others have done it makes it much more difficult

[philforsure]

Okay apologies, I have never appealed a rejection at adjudicators so I am a little lost on what to do. I am under the impression I need to add more details to my original appeal then resubmit it.


What documents should I upload? I have uploaded the rejection and my original appeal is in the first post.



This post has been edited by philforsure: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 - 15:12

[PASTMYBEST]

Okay apologies, I have never appealed a rejection at adjudicators so I am a little lost on what to do. I am under the impression I need to add more details to my original appeal then resubmit it.


What documents should I upload? I have uploaded the rejection and my original appeal is in the first post.

Ive attempted to extract the original video but since it has been so long since the original contravention I think it has been removed .... I am unable to download it.

ALL documents as i said ant transcripts and not partial documents dates etc are very important to us so redact only your personal details

[John U.K.]

I am taking this to the adjudicator tomorrow to submit another appeal.

Hi, Thanks for getting back to me. I do not have a hearing tomorrow. I am taking this to the adjudicator tomorrow to submit another appeal.

The first step is to register the appeal with the Tribunal. Have you done this? Have you got the form? when is the deadline for registering - see NoR dated 19th March.

If you have not registered, do this now. Opt for personal (currently = telephone) hearing (you can always change later) and in the box for submissions write something like I rely on my original representations and full submission to follow.

The Tribunal will give you a date for the hearing and you will have time to assemble the best case with help here.

What documents should I upload? I have uploaded the rejection and my original appeal is in the first post.

For the current PCN you need to post copies (not transcripts) of all sides of -
the original PCN
all correspondence and notices to and from the Council.
Redact only name, address, Reg mark and PCN number. Leave in all timers, dates, locations.

Do not try to attach docs (space here very limited) - use external site like https://imgbb.com/ and post a link or better still the BBcodes here. Set uploads not to autodelete if signed up and using https://imgbb.com
----------------------

I have been issued about 12 tickets going through this junction, the majority of which have been canceled now.

To give us the bigger picture, can you produce a timeline for these PCNs and what happened to each along the lines of

Date PCN1 Date reps made Date Cancelled/reps rejected/paid
Date PCN2 Date reps made Date Cancelled/reps rejected/paid
Date PCN3 and so on.

The timeline will help to sort out this comment of yours

I have paid two already, I was under the impression that I would only have to pay two. I appealed against 4. A while back I had called Southwark and they claimed all but three had been canceled. I received three letters back in the post one was a warning notice and the other two were rejected. Now 56 days later they send me another rejected appeal.

Two paid, four appealed - the other six?

This post has been edited by John U.K.: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 - 15:40

[philforsure]

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1p_m...1pu?usp=sharing



the link includes the video, original contravention, the appeal, and rejection. Let me know if u need anything else



grounds of appeal selected : The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case

updated link

This post has been edited by philforsure: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 - 16:33

[Neil B]

I'm not sure if you read John's reply.

You said you were "taking this to the adjudicator tomorrow". Well you're obviously not going to be walking to Holborn.

So have you registered the appeal yet?

[philforsure]

I've registered the appeal on the grounds : the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case

[Neil B]

I've registered the appeal on the grounds : the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case

With the tribunal? (adjudicator)

[philforsure]

I see where the confusion is coming from. I meant to say I am registering the appeal tomorrow at the tribunal. Which is what I have just done.

This post has been edited by philforsure: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 - 05:29

[Neil B]

So now you need to tell us when you are given a date for decision/hearing.

Did you say you have other outstanding PCNs?

This post has been edited by Neil B: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 - 11:29

[philforsure]

The date is registered for the 22nd of May. I have no other outstanding PCNs. I paid for two, another one was served as a warning notice and then about 8-10 were canceled.

[cp8759]

Please re-upload the last two pages of the Notice of Rejection to your google drive in a higher resolution, it's too low a resolution to read.

I might be able to represent you at the tribunal if the council contests the appeal.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 - 22:15

[philforsure]

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1p_m...1pu?usp=sharing

My appeal is on the 22nd of May, can anyone represent me ?


I just received some stuff back from Southwark please see the google drive + they have added the notice of rejection

What do I do?

[cp8759]

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1p_m...1pu?usp=sharing

My appeal is on the 22nd of May, can anyone represent me ?

Quite possibly, but your link just gives a 404 error and I cannot represent you if I have no idea what the appeal is even about. If you get back to me today there's a chance I might be able to cobble something together.

[cp8759]

philforsure decided to go it alone:

Case reference 2210182459
Reasons
I was able to speak with the appellant on 22 May regarding the above Braganza PCN which was being pursued. No Council representative was available for participation in the telephone hearing.

I understood that despite now living in Dagenham the appellant maintains contact with her mother in Southwark and had been using the Braganza route historically for childcare arrangements down the years.

I learnt from her about the 13 similar PCNs incurred. I was not very receptive to her comments criticising the signage and this as being missed on account of height especially given the low level red signage that was there as well.

I explained to the appellant that the Council had in my view been more generous than my inclination by cancelling as many as they apparently had on discretionary grounds.

The appellant was straightforward in describing her conversations with the Council and the course of correspondence with it .

I could understand that she believed that the payments made on two of the penalty charge notices made amounted effectively to agreed settlement for entire liability. There may have been misunderstanding on one side or the other about that but the appellant had at least a palpable lingering grievance about loss of discount opportunity on this PCN and I felt there was some substance in that given the overall information in what was before me. Cutting the long and for the appellant rather painful story short I have recorded this appeal as refused but exceptionally with the penalty charge held at £65 provided this is now paid promptly (28 days).

I have recorded penalty charge in this sum in the Tribunal Register.

Mr Styles's direction regarding the discount is quite plainly ultra-vires, no idea why the council didn't ask for a review.