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[NIP Wizard] Advice please - NIP accuses of going through a red light in Taunton.
Science123
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 09:42
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - July 2018
Date of the NIP: - 21 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 28 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Chritchard Parkway, jct Wordsworth Drive, Taunton, Taunton Deane, UK
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - I have a personal lease on the vehicle
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - The NIP says 'driver allegedly committed the offence of Drive motor vehicle fail comply with red/ green arrow/ lane closure traffic light signals - automatic equipment contrary to section 36(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988. The red light had been illuminated for 39.2 seconds when the vehicle crossed the white stop line'.

Firstly, I have no recollection of any red light far less going through a red light. Context is that it was 6.05am on a Saturday morning; I had been staying in a hotel in Taunton on way to Cornwall on holiday. I woke early, decided to have a drive around town to have a look and then back for breakfast - so a very relaxed drive with no time pressure, albeit in a town i'd never been in before.

Wider context is that i'm certainly not in the habit of going through red lights. I have been driving for 37 years and other than 2-3 speeding tickets over the decades have had no other incidents.

Any thoughts on how I should respond to the NIP would be appreciated.

Thanks


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 09:42:13 +0000
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post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 09:42
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666
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 09:47
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Before you reply, you can ask for any photos "to help identify the driver". Don't mention proof or evidence, and they will probably oblige. Bear in mind that asking for these doesn't stop the clock on the deadline to reply.

The photo will probably show your car, together with the red light.
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Jlc
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 09:49
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QUOTE (Science123 @ Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 10:42) *
Any thoughts on how I should respond to the NIP would be appreciated.

No other response than naming the driver is required.

However, you may wish to request a photo to assist in the identification of the driver - on the basis to see a picture to confirm the offence. (Prior to confirming the driver)

But there's little reason to doubt the allegation as RLC's are extremely reliable. The camera is here.

That time in red would indicate that you sailed through without realising rather than any deliberate act but nevertheless it's a strict liability offence. Additionally, that excess can only be dealt with at court.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 09:50


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 11:05
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Maybe the lights went red/amber and you drove through before they went green....

As above, ask for the photos and see what they show, the light sensors are very reliable, they only issue we have ever seen is where they enforce one lane while another lane is green and the driver wasn’t fully in that lane and triggered the camera despite carrying on in the green direction lawfully.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Stoofa
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 11:44
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Illuminated for 39.2 seconds - wow, that is not a case of the lights just changing as the OP drove through.
As above - possibly jumped the lights?

This post has been edited by Stoofa: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 11:45
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 13:11
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QUOTE (Stoofa @ Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 12:44) *
Illuminated for 39.2 seconds - wow, that is not a case of the lights just changing as the OP drove through.
As above - possibly jumped the lights?

Thank you for your insightful observation, which is sure to assist the OP.


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My username is notmeatloaf because I'm not made of meat loaf. I hope that clarifies things.
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Science123
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 13:18
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Thanks all for getting back to me. Yes that all makes sense, but what's confusing me is why i'd jump a light at 6.05 in the morning on what was probably my most relaxed drive of the last ten years. My suspicion, given that I have no re-collection of an issue on that drive whatsoever, is that I just did not see the light at all; that would be weird but I'd think that is more realistic than jumping a light.

If that's the case, what's my best route forward? Ask for a photo to check the driver and see if the photo reveals anything?

Anything else I should be considering?
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Jlc
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 13:25
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Yes, ask for a photo. They don't have to provide one but often do - they are from the rear so will not show the driver anyway, but it's more to confirm the offence. (They will almost certainly show the car moving over the stop line with red illuminated)

The 28 day clock to name the driver does not stop.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Science123
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 13:31
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OK thanks, yes i'll request a photo.

On the assumption it shows what the NIP shows, any idea what I should expect after that? What's the process I should follow?
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Jlc
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 13:34
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After naming the driver they'll either respond that the matter will be going to court or indeed 'nothing'. That is until the court paperwork drops on your mat - which can often take up to 6-7 months... (Which will be Single Justice Procedure)

You should be able to deal with it by way of postal plea. If they are pursuing the matter as a traffic signal offence then it will still be 3 points at court. (I presume the NIP doesn't make reference to careless driving for example?) The fine will be income related (Around 1 week's earnings), along with costs (£85) and surcharge 10% of the fine (min £30).

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 13:34


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Science123
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 13:41
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OK, thanks very much for your help - the outcome will be what it will be I guess, but at least i'm clearer on the process and potential outcomes.
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Stoofa
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 14:06
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 14:11) *
QUOTE (Stoofa @ Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 12:44) *
Illuminated for 39.2 seconds - wow, that is not a case of the lights just changing as the OP drove through.
As above - possibly jumped the lights?

Thank you for your insightful observation, which is sure to assist the OP.


Hay, I was mentioning it as it could have jogged the memory of the OP.
Whereas he cannot remember travelling through a red light, he might have remembered being a little too quick on the accelerator at a red light.

Oh BTW, you might want to check your forum settings - the mod badge appears to have fallen off your profile.
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Logician
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 16:30
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QUOTE (Science123 @ Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 14:41) *
OK, thanks very much for your help - the outcome will be what it will be I guess, but at least i'm clearer on the process and potential outcomes.


Just to warn you, there is a chance that for that time into the red they will go for careless driving rather than the simple traffic signal offence.



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Jlc
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 16:52
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Only s36 appears to be mentioned - careless would normally be mentioned if they were considering it.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 17:52
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QUOTE (Stoofa @ Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 15:06) *
Oh BTW, you might want to check your forum settings - the mod badge appears to have fallen off your profile.

There is no need for badges to tell who is the moderator on this forum.


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My username is notmeatloaf because I'm not made of meat loaf. I hope that clarifies things.
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Science123
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 22:19
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Noted thanks re the possibility of careless driving. Should I be looking for a lawyer now, or just see how it pans out when I check their photo (assuming the send one) and I respond to that?
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 22:25
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There is no point looking for a solicitor now or indeed at all, unless the photos show a defence.

If you plead guilty you can only get three points, and the fine is income related. The whole matter can be dealt with by post if it does go to court.


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My username is notmeatloaf because I'm not made of meat loaf. I hope that clarifies things.
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Science123
post Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 20:01
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That's good to know thanks.
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