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Speed fine - room to appeal
vale
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:07
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Hello Everyone,

I have moved two months back in the UK. Got my bike 5 days ago. I have received a first speed fine, exceeding a speed limit of 30 mph at 41 mph on the Upper street Thames in London. After few days I have received a second speed fine at 38 mph in the same exact spot taken before I would receive the first fine notification. This is a point which I am riding almost everyday and I am really worried I will get more.

I went to investigate the street, because I usually drive very careful and aware of the limits. On the street there are two speed cameras, 0.3 miles separated each other. Before the first speed fine there are signs setting the limit at 30 mph. I didn't get any violation on this camera. After that, there is not speed limit sign until a point which you see a board saying speed limit at 30 mph and the camera warning. The only problem is that the camera is just 5 meters after this sign.

How am I supposed to decrease the speed in such a short distance? Also, the purpose to have limits is ensure in some dangerous street stretch you don't risk to hurt yourself or someone because of the speed. I wonder what is the purpose in this instance? Just to make money?

I wonder if there is room in this case to appeal?

Thanks,
Valentino
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post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:07
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NeverMind
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:12
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You are supposed to have slowed to 30 before you pass the 30 sign, so the proximity of the camera after the sign is irrelevant, so no 'appeal' there, sorry.
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BaggieBoy
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:15
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Isn't the case that the speed limit was a continuous 30 MPH anyway between the cameras? Unless you saw a limit sign to the contrary, after the initial 30MPH it would continue to be 30MPH.

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Jlc
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 15:30
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There's also a system of street lighting in place - thus a restricted road (30mph) unless there are signs to the contrary.

QUOTE (vale @ Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 15:07) *
How am I supposed to decrease the speed in such a short distance?

I think the key issue that it's actually 30mph before that sign anyway so there's no deceleration required. Any additional 'repeaters' are not actually required anyway within the limit as I note above.

From what you've said so far, you've past a 30mph (terminal?) sign but decided to speed up because you saw no more?

QUOTE (vale @ Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 15:07) *
I wonder if there is room in this case to appeal?

The Police don't run an 'appeal' service per se - the matter would have to progress to court. But they may consider some 'leniency' for multiple offences but legally do not have to.

The basis being that you did not have the opportunity to regulate your speed because of the delay in sending the letter(s). It's possible more will arrive...

QUOTE (vale @ Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 15:07) *
Also, the purpose to have limits is ensure in some dangerous street stretch you don't risk to hurt yourself or someone because of the speed. I wonder what is the purpose in this instance? Just to make money?

If the signage is correct (it probably is) then these arguments won't work. There's no defence in disagreeing with a limit. Although, some camera's do generate more money that others - often referred to as 'cash cows'. Strictly they don't have to a purpose or even be in an area with a high level of incidents.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 15:28


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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cp8759
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 17:40
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 16:30) *
QUOTE (vale @ Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 15:07) *
Also, the purpose to have limits is ensure in some dangerous street stretch you don't risk to hurt yourself or someone because of the speed. I wonder what is the purpose in this instance? Just to make money?

If the signage is correct (it probably is) then these arguments won't work. There's no defence in disagreeing with a limit. Although, some camera's do generate more money that others - often referred to as 'cash cows'. Strictly they don't have to a purpose or even be in an area with a high level of incidents.

+1, basically you're expected to respect all of the laws all of the time, and if you take a risk and get caught, it's tough luck. But you should qualify for a speed awareness course for one and a fixed penalty for the other so you'll still only have 3 points.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Ocelot
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 17:41
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Are you riding on a British licence, and have you held it for more than two years?
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notmeatloaf
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 21:34
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Isn't it, from memory, average speed cameras here?

Your speed is measured between the two if that is the case, not past each one - so both cameras "got" you.

The speed limit there is 30mph for some considerable distance around, the presence of street lighting with no other signage indicating a different limit = 30mph.
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BaggieBoy
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 21:47
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 22:34) *
Isn't it, from memory, average speed cameras here?

It appears not:

Streetview
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roythebus
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 13:38
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I'd say it's quite clear that most of London is a 30 limit, or 20 in a lot of boroughs, so no real excuse for doing over 30. I'd suggest the 30 signs are the blue reminder signs they put near speed cameras to remind you of the limit.
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