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Alphaman101
post Mon, 23 Jul 2018 - 22:35
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"The Unique Reference Number (URN) isn't valid. Enter the number exactly as it appears on page 1 of the notice"

Why is this happening? I tried entering it into the make a plea site as soon as I received it- it didn't work then so I thought it was because I was trying it too early and it wasn't quite in the system yet so wasn't being recognised. It's a week since I received it and the court date is just over a week away and it's still not working... no idea why...

I've tried varying including the forward slashes, not typing them in but neither works. All the other characters are definitely correct.

The URN is of the following format where # represents a number and * represents a letter:

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post Mon, 23 Jul 2018 - 22:35
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Alphaman101
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 11:41
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 07:44) *
OP, Going 15 yards along a pavement to access a parking space is not the same thing, read what that statute actually says.


It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land.

I don't think you looked at the picture below:

You saying because I didn't park on the actual pavement (which is the same land) giving them an excuse to fine me for causing an obstruction then I would have been able to use section 34? I'm not sure I agree...

This post has been edited by Alphaman101: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 11:42
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The Rookie
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 11:46
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As the pavement is always less than 15 yards from the road, do you think that allows you to drive 4 miles along a pavement to access a parking place?

In addition you weren’t parking on that land but another piece, I think you’ll struggle to convince a court that wasn’t an offence.


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Alphaman101
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 11:55
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 12:46) *
As the pavement is always less than 15 yards from the road, do you think that allows you to drive 4 miles along a pavement to access a parking place?

In addition you weren’t parking on that land but another piece, I think you’ll struggle to convince a court that wasn’t an offence.


No but I didn't travel along the pavement parallel to the road. Kerb was mounted and distance travlled was perpendicular to road and actual distance travelled on the pavement perpendicular was less than 15m to the store entrance. Did you assume otherwise?
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 12:09
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QUOTE (Alphaman101 @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 12:55) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 12:46) *
As the pavement is always less than 15 yards from the road, do you think that allows you to drive 4 miles along a pavement to access a parking place?

In addition you weren’t parking on that land but another piece, I think you’ll struggle to convince a court that wasn’t an offence.


No but I didn't travel along the pavement parallel to the road. Kerb was mounted and distance travlled was perpendicular to road and actual distance travelled on the pavement perpendicular was less than 15m to the store entrance. Did you assume otherwise?


QUOTE
When I got to the KFC on Bull Street I turned the engine on, I mounted the kerb travelled 10metres at walking pace to a private area off the pavement. right in front of the KFC entrance. That's 10 metres so less than 15 yards.


No, they likely just remembered you admitted you did not travel directly across the land to the parking space, but along the pavement for ten metres. Unless you claim the pavement is 10m wide?

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 12:10
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Alphaman101
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 12:35
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 13:09) *
No, they likely just remembered you admitted you did not travel directly across the land to the parking space, but along the pavement for ten metres. Unless you claim the pavement is 10m wide?


In my post with all the pictures I included a pic with the distance measurement tool on google maps measuring the perpendicular distance from KFC to the kerb. I thought it was implied sorry. If it wasn't then sorry for the ambiguity. Perpendicular was what I did. Yes that is a my claim- it is not one of the typical pavements you are thinking of.

Do you possibly have an answer to the following I posted before?

QUOTE (Alphaman101 @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 06:07) *
Another thing I've been thinking about-

Truth or not truth? : going down the wrong way of a one way street automatically equals driving without due care and attention? Surely not? ... if one carries no endorsement points and the other is an automatic 3-9?



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The Rookie
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 13:49
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Just to clarify, you are talking about parking in the place marked in red in front of the KFC? Why not park on the road? And if it has double yellow lines or other restriction, parking there is similarly as unlawful. So I don’t see the exemption being valid.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 13:51


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Alphaman101
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 14:11
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 14:49) *
Just to clarify, you are talking about parking in the place marked in red in front of the KFC? Why not park on the road? And if it has double yellow lines or other restriction, parking there is similarly as unlawful. So I don’t see the exemption being valid.


You can park on double yellows for 5 mins. But nobody does that cos if everybody did it would cause a huge jam for all the buses on Bull Street. I'm not sure I follow... What does any regulation relating to the road parking have to do with the red area that's a part of KFC?

This post has been edited by Alphaman101: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 14:12
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peterguk
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 14:12
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QUOTE (Alphaman101 @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 15:11) *
You can park on double yellows for 5 mins.

Rubbish. There is no automatic 5 minute allowance to park on DYLs.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 14:13


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Alphaman101
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 14:40
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 15:12) *
QUOTE (Alphaman101 @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 15:11) *
You can park on double yellows for 5 mins.

Rubbish. There is no automatic 5 minute allowance to park on DYLs.


Alright sorry about that- silly, ignorant me....But still...What does any regulation relating to the road parking have to do with the red area that's a part of KFC?
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The Rookie
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 14:52
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Because the parking restriction carries back to anywhere the public have access to, as you accessed it on your bike then clearly the restriction still applies.

You may be advised to read the Highway Code, the number of assumptions you’ve made that are wrong keep going up!

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 14:52


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 15:03
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So again - you did not travel along the pavement, but directly across, and that was 10 metres?
I asked a simple question before but you didnt answer it, so rephrasing may help

Was the direct distance across the pavement to the shop front 10metres? Simple yes or no.

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 15:03
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KH_
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 17:02
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KFC here

Edit: appears to be around 10 metres, give or take.


This post has been edited by KH_: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 17:06
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The Rookie
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 17:30
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I don’t see it’s relevant given the fact he wasn’t accessing anywhere where he could legitimately park....


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
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Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

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Alphaman101
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 18:07
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 16:03) *
So again - you did not travel along the pavement, but directly across, and that was 10 metres?
I asked a simple question before but you didnt answer it, so rephrasing may help

Was the direct distance across the pavement to the shop front 10metres? Simple yes or no.


10m yes.
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 19:13
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You have a double edged sword.

You have the makings of a defence against riding on the pavement, and the prosecutor could accept a plea bargain where they drop that charge and consider the whole incident as careless.

However, you then risk the magistrates seeing riding across the pavement as aggressive riding, which could tip the balance between lower culpability (3-4pts) and higher culpability (5-6pts).

If you are very averse to points there might be benefit in accepting a higher fine in return for keeping the two "legs" notionally separate.
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Alphaman101
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 19:17
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 20:13) *
You have a double edged sword.

You have the makings of a defence against riding on the pavement, and the prosecutor could accept a plea bargain where they drop that charge and consider the whole incident as careless.


I will not have a solicitor- so who has the power to offer a plea bargain. Also what would the benefit of the above be if the whole incident is considered careless?

QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 20:13) *
However, you then risk the magistrates seeing riding across the pavement as aggressive riding, which could tip the balance between lower culpability (3-4pts) and higher culpability (5-6pts).

If you are very averse to points there might be benefit in accepting a higher fine in return for keeping the two "legs" notionally separate.


Well then I don't like this idea at all.

Could you elaborate on the: "If you are very averse to points there might be benefit in accepting a higher fine in return for keeping the two "legs" notionally separate."
I am not quite sure I quite understand how to go down this particular route. I cannot get even a single point otherwise it is bye bye licence. So I am keen to hear this option. Even if I pay 300+ for my stupidity of being a t**t to the officers

If you are cleared of charges presented by prosecution but it is still found that there was still another definite lesser motoring offence in there that you committed can you instead be prosecuted for that offence? I think you know what I am hinting at...

This post has been edited by Alphaman101: Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 19:25
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The Rookie
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 20:18
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In the UK there is strictly no concept of a plea bargain in the same way they do in the US, but you just need to have a quiet chat with the prosecutor if you are proposing such a deal, that will have to happen on the day at the trial venue as that is the only time you will know you are talking to the right prosecutor.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Logician
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 20:52
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In other words, offer to plead guilty to driving on the footpath if they will drop the careless driving, as you recognise you should not have gone across the pavement to KFC but do not feel it amounted to careless driving, this was at very low speed and the bike was completely under you control at all times. If you know have s.9 statements, make sure there is nothing in them you should specifically address. Get to court early and ask one of the ushers to point out the prosecutor dealing with traffic cases.


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notmeatloaf
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 21:28
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As Logician says, although to be honest I was thinking the opposite, asking them to drop the footpath charge and do careless for the whole journey. I really don't see them dropping the careless driving because it is the more serious charge if you told the police you thought you were riding a bicycle I think it will be stunningly easy for them.

Unfortunately with careless points are mandatory outside of very exceptional circumstances. Why would you lose your licence with a single point? If it is a totting ban (12+ points) you can argue exceptional reasons why not to disqualify. If under the new drivers act (6+ points in first two years) you can get your licence back fairly quickly if you are on the ball about booking tests.
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Alphaman101
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 22:34
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I never told the police I thought I was riding a bicycle. I never once thought it would ever be treated like a bicycle- I said to you guys non formally that it's really basically not really doing anything that much more different to a bicycle... surely it in real life if you saw this you wouldn't treat it as horrifically dangerous.

also I'm curious if the word "motorbike" (ooh scary, big, fast) has made everyone react differently to all this rather than if I had said scooter- I failed to mention it's just a 125cc motorbike small just like any pizza scooter...

also in the s9 the police officer acknowledges that I saw them. We all made eye contact. And then I did the manoeuver anyway! But they followed me- run/walked after me no idea...
Surely the fact that I SAW them and STILL did it... says something- he even states the pair were standing 10m away from me and I STILL did it... surely that says something about how innocent I believed my actions to have been...
Am I gonna do something I believe to be illegal in this situation in front of a police officer?

So when do I make a plea bargain- surely I can't do it before the court hearing starts? He'll have needed to have heard my side, felt a bit of sympathy surely... Otherwise- I could be a total maniac who really did drive dangerously and has no excuse trying to make a bargain no?

I need this licence (Car and Full motorbike [any cc]) for the job or legs are cut off- mitigating circumstances... but I'm scared of asking for mitigating circumstances in case they see it as a way of saying... "spare me, I know I did wrong, but I need you to let me off for this special reason."

This post has been edited by Alphaman101: Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 22:47
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