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URN not recognised
Alphaman101
post Mon, 23 Jul 2018 - 22:35
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"The Unique Reference Number (URN) isn't valid. Enter the number exactly as it appears on page 1 of the notice"

Why is this happening? I tried entering it into the make a plea site as soon as I received it- it didn't work then so I thought it was because I was trying it too early and it wasn't quite in the system yet so wasn't being recognised. It's a week since I received it and the court date is just over a week away and it's still not working... no idea why...

I've tried varying including the forward slashes, not typing them in but neither works. All the other characters are definitely correct.

The URN is of the following format where # represents a number and * represents a letter:

##/**/#######/##
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post Mon, 23 Jul 2018 - 22:35
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Logician
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 19:23
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QUOTE (Alphaman101 @ Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 17:40) *
Fantastic Southpaw! Thank you - so I am free of one charge. The important thing and the one I am scared of is the one way. If the engine is off and it is simply rolling in correct direction of the bicycle lane- strictly speaking am I committing a traffic offence or not? I do not want to be at the mercy of a judge and hope they’re nice. Is it illegal or not strictly speaking? Why? It is essentially a bicycle at this point is it not? They checked the brakes when they were looking for an excuse to seize it the desperados concluded they were fine. A rolling glorified bicycle with fully working brakes. I was in full control...


A motorbike does not become a bicycle just because you have turned off the engine. Going the wrong way in a one way street is an offence, but one which is not endorsable, you get a fine only, no points. Failing to obey a No Entry sign on the other hand does carry points.




QUOTE
The law is clear: the more unusual your action, the higher your duty of care rises. So if you have an extraordinary reason to ride more than 15 yards on the pavement and pushing is not a viable option, it would take very little to trip it into dangerous riding. Counter Intuitively, the lesser charges of driving without due care and attention or careless and inconsiderate driving would not be alternative offences – the offence is not a momentary lapse of concentration (it cannot be with a deliberate act), and if you were riding inconsiderately on the pavement it would be an obvious endangerment to people who might also be using it.


This is rubbish, the difference between careless and dangerous driving is simply one of degree, it is quite wrong to suggest one is a deliberate act and the other a lapse of concentration, that is a basic error although one often made. That casts doubt on the accuracy of the rest of the article.




This post has been edited by Logician: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 19:27


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Alphaman101
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 21:25
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Ok well this is really unfortunate I want to plead guilty to driving the wrong way because it seems sitting in the saddle has screwed me and I’ll take the fine. But I don’t want to plead guilty to driving without due care and attention- I knew exactly what I was doing and it was not being blind just going down the road- my actions were calculated and I was wary.
What plea do I make... It is so inconvenient why this must be black or white - I’m not in the right but it’s nowhere near as far in the wrong as the pair of exaggerators are making out.

This post has been edited by Alphaman101: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 21:26
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southpaw82
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 21:35
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Um... guilty if you are, not guilty if you’re not...?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Alphaman101
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 22:34
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??? Driving without due care and attention is what they perceived it to be. Not Guilty of Driving without due care and attention as it says on the paper.

Does going down the wrong way in the manner I did constitute DWDCAA? No I don't believe so.

Can I still get a fine for going down the wrong way despite not being guilty of the above. That's the outcome I'm hoping for... they see a little bit of financial blood, I get no points. happy days.

This post has been edited by Alphaman101: Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 22:35
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Logician
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 23:41
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You will have to see what you are charged with, and you may have to wait months for that.


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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 08:34
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Did your standard fall below that of a careful and competent rider?
Potentially
A careful and competent rider woudl know that the motorbike is still a motorbike even with the engine switched off, and so would not be allowed in a cycle path (I think thats what you said? Apologies if wrong) as its still a 150kg ish machine and not a 10kg pedal bowered bicycle.

SO yes, it could easily be DWDCAA.
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Alphaman101
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 09:12
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Silly. If I was running downhill with the bike on the left side of the bike away from traffic with no access to the rear brake which is on the right hand side where my right foot goes that would on the other hand be considered totally ok? SMH.

This post has been edited by Alphaman101: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 09:12
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The Rookie
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 10:05
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Not necessarily no, its still a mechanically propelled vehicle travelling where its not meant to.


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Logician
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 10:14
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QUOTE (Alphaman101 @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 10:12) *
Silly. If I was running downhill with the bike on the left side of the bike away from traffic with no access to the rear brake which is on the right hand side where my right foot goes that would on the other hand be considered totally ok? SMH.


No, that sounds like not being in a position to have proper control of the vehicle and/or careless driving. Your bike remains a mechanically propelled vehicle, even if at the time it is not being mechanically propelled.



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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 13:19
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QUOTE (Alphaman101 @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 10:12) *
Silly. If I was running downhill with the bike on the left side of the bike away from traffic with no access to the rear brake which is on the right hand side where my right foot goes that would on the other hand be considered totally ok? SMH.

No, of course not.
You seem to think that a mechanically proelled vehicle stops being one when the engine is off. Shockingly enough, thats not true.
So if you are not in a position to be in proper control, like the scenario above, then thats still an offence.
I suggest you carefully think about the pleas you will enter. So far you have admitted at least one offence, Id say.
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Alphaman101
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 13:50
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But I cannot plead guilty- that will be 3 points minimum. And what I did there does not merit that whatsoever. I am pleading not guilty.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 14:12
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QUOTE (Alphaman101 @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 14:50) *
But I cannot plead guilty- that will be 3 points minimum. And what I did there does not merit that whatsoever. I am pleading not guilty.

That may be your opinion, but the minimum for any motoring offence is 3 points and I'd suggest 35mph in a 30 is even less deserving? (Scotland, no courses available in my example).

if you committed the offence it will be at least 3 points, if you didn't its zero, whether you think it merits 3 points for what you did isn't going to help.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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southpaw82
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 14:36
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QUOTE (Alphaman101 @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 14:50) *
But I cannot plead guilty- that will be 3 points minimum. And what I did there does not merit that whatsoever. I am pleading not guilty.

I make no comment on the merits of your case but you should think carefully about prosecution costs. If convicted following a trial these will be in the hundreds of pounds (a nominal figure being £620).


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 16:41
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Indeed, it’s not unusual for the increased cost if found guilty to come to circa £1000 once prosecution costs and increase fine and surcharge are taken into account.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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notmeatloaf
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 19:57
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The issue you have is that you appear to concede that you would have been committing a motoring offence, but you thought you were safe because you were riding a bicycle at the time.

If that and/or you feel points are unfair is the sole basis of your defence you seem very very very likely to lose if the prosecutor can prove that your bike is fitted with a petrol engine designed to mechanically propel the vehicle, and the magistrates accept that having the engine switched off does not alter those facts.

There is also the fact that depending on the offence you are charged with you may receive more than three points - careless driving is up to nine for instance. Human nature is that if you aggravate them by saying you were riding a bicycle they may err to more rather than less.

That's not to be difficult, just better you hear these questions now rather than from a prosecutor charging you £620 for five minutes of advice.


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My username is notmeatloaf because I'm not made of meat loaf. I hope that clarifies things.
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Alphaman101
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 01:21
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Wow- The truth really hurts- It may be a good idea to sacrifice the pavement penalty even though I am in the right for that one in the hope they have mercy and let me off the driving without due care and plead only not guilty to the driving without due care.

If they decide to be cruel and ruin me for both can I then turn around and then appeal it and say: alright well you've got to let me off the pavement one at least- I change my plea to not guilty... Section 34(3) of the Road Traffic Act 1988
da da da da da
"It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land.

Or is it the case that once the decision is made after my initial plea it's final?
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The Rookie
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 04:33
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Of course you can appeal a verdict, but you cannot appeal a guilty plea.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Alphaman101
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 05:07
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Another thing I've been thinking about-

Truth or not truth? : going down the wrong way of a one way street automatically equals driving without due care and attention? Surely not? ... if one carries no endorsement points and the other is an automatic 3-9?
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The Rookie
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 06:44
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 16:46) *
You mean this? Section 34(3) of the Roaf Traffic Act 1988

QUOTE
It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land.


OP, Going 15 yards along a pavement to access a parking space is not the same thing, read what that statute actually says.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 06:45


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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southpaw82
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 09:51
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You would find it exceptionally difficult to change your guilty plea to a not guilty plea. You would find it equally difficult to appeal a guilty plea.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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