PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Speeding ticket from Switzerland
sg2015
post Tue, 2 Jan 2018 - 16:14
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 28 Apr 2015
Member No.: 76,976



I was caught speeding in Switzerland in July, had a form asking for the drivers details to my name & address (registered keeper) come through in November. I filled this in and a fine has been produced, arriving 27th Dec (happy Christmas!). The first letter had German and English, but the second letter only has German, so I've no idea what it says! Apart from the fine is fairly obvious (has a big TOTAL mark)

It's for 136kph in an 80kph, which is then reduced to 130kph due to adjustments. Fine is 2700CHF, approx £2050. No salary was given etc.

What are my options? TIA
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
5 Pages V  « < 2 3 4 5 >  
Start new topic
Replies (60 - 79)
Advertisement
post Tue, 2 Jan 2018 - 16:14
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
baroudeur
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 11:21
Post #61


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 413
Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Member No.: 73,212



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 15:16) *
It all seems pretty self-explanatory now that we can read what it says. £1,960 seems pretty harsh for doing 80 in a 50, but the fact that you would probably be punished less harshly in the UK is neither here nor there.

At this point you need to decide what course of action to take, as it does't sound like you have any defence in law (this somewhat depends on whether you ever plan on visiting Switzerland again). If you don't pay and are ever stopped by the Swiss authorities, it looks like you'd have to pay around £6,300 or risk a stint in jail. On the other had if you ignore it and never visit Switzerland again, I don't see any chance whatsoever of a court entertaining an extradition request, given that at the end of the day it's just a speeding ticket. As Switzerland is not an EU member state, there is no mechanism for them to enforce payment of the fine.


It's NOT 'just a speeding ticket' Speeding in Switzerland is a criminal offence and a serious transgression (and this one was!) could be subject to to prison sentence.

From Swiss motoring penalties

Foreign motorists who do not pay their Swiss fine and whose fine has subsequently been converted to a prison sentence are registered in the police alert database RIPOL for a period of up to three years.

Recovery of such large amounts through a civil debt claim must be tempting. wink.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NewJudge
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 12:00
Post #62


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,562
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Member No.: 23,623



QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 12:21) *
It's NOT 'just a speeding ticket' Speeding in Switzerland is a criminal offence and a serious transgression (and this one was!) could be subject to to prison sentence.

Then, apart from the amount levied, it's no different to the UK. Here speeding is a criminal offence and can lead to a prison sentence if any fines remain unpaid.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 12:38
Post #63


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,536
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 11:49) *
Speeding is a criminal offence in Switzerland and challenging a speeding penalty, obtained with the use of approved equipment, will be extrememly difficult and expensive. In the UK the advice in similar circumstances, more often than not, is to pay. Whether the Swiss will attempt to recover unpaid penalties as a debt through a civil claim in the UK remains to be seen. Some Italian authorities appear to be using Claims Management Companies but, so far, no court cases have been reported but one International Claims Management Company is pressing hard in the EU for it to be approved for cross border recovery How long before recovery of unpaid penalties within the EU becomes the norm? Some countries already have such agreements in place.


As a fine arising from a criminal offence, on the face of it a UK court appears unlikely to accept it as a civil debt.



--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 17:33
Post #64


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,881
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 13:00) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 12:21) *
It's NOT 'just a speeding ticket' Speeding in Switzerland is a criminal offence and a serious transgression (and this one was!) could be subject to to prison sentence.

Then, apart from the amount levied, it's no different to the UK. Here speeding is a criminal offence and can lead to a prison sentence if any fines remain unpaid.

With the difference that it doesn't get recorded on PNC just for three years. Once it gets to the point where the court issues a warrant (assuming all fines / paperwork is ignored), that warrant will stay on PNC pretty much indefinitely (although I think it gets wiped when you're deemed to be 100 years old).


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
baroudeur
post Sun, 22 Apr 2018 - 15:47
Post #65


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 413
Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Member No.: 73,212



deleted

There was some work on the transnational recovery of fines by the Dutch in 2014. Things have moved on in relation to obtaining owner/keeper/driver details but there appears to be no move by the UK to introduce any legal provision based, it seems, on the fact that we have very few outstanding fines to chase compared to some EC countries, France, Italy and Spain in particular, where foreign registered cars create a very large pool of unpaid fines. The French do appear to be more active and create ghost records at their central processing bureau. At some stage it may be that car registrations with outstanding fines will appear on "PNC" checks as the French are very keen to stop the abuse of speed limits by foreign drivers. The reduction of the national speed limit from 90kph to 80kph in July will, no doubt, create a large increase in offending rates.

Dutch report

This post has been edited by baroudeur: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 - 15:47
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sg2015
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 07:23
Post #66


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 28 Apr 2015
Member No.: 76,976



Thanks for all the replies. My next step is to request a repayment plan. The lady I spoke with said it happens fairly frequently. At least then the fine will feel less of a hit...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 09:27
Post #67


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,881
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sun, 22 Apr 2018 - 16:47) *
deleted

There was some work on the transnational recovery of fines by the Dutch in 2014. Things have moved on in relation to obtaining owner/keeper/driver details but there appears to be no move by the UK to introduce any legal provision based, it seems, on the fact that we have very few outstanding fines to chase compared to some EC countries, France, Italy and Spain in particular, where foreign registered cars create a very large pool of unpaid fines. The French do appear to be more active and create ghost records at their central processing bureau. At some stage it may be that car registrations with outstanding fines will appear on "PNC" checks as the French are very keen to stop the abuse of speed limits by foreign drivers. The reduction of the national speed limit from 90kph to 80kph in July will, no doubt, create a large increase in offending rates.

Dutch report

This is all very interesting, but doesn't change the fact that Switzerland is not in the EU.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 09:49
Post #68


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39,691
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Indeed, everything I've found on X-border enforcement relates to EU membership and although Switzerland pays into the EU and is in the free trade area it is NOT a member.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
baroudeur
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 14:10
Post #69


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 413
Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Member No.: 73,212



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 09:27) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sun, 22 Apr 2018 - 16:47) *
deleted

There was some work on the transnational recovery of fines by the Dutch in 2014. Things have moved on in relation to obtaining owner/keeper/driver details but there appears to be no move by the UK to introduce any legal provision based, it seems, on the fact that we have very few outstanding fines to chase compared to some EC countries, France, Italy and Spain in particular, where foreign registered cars create a very large pool of unpaid fines. The French do appear to be more active and create ghost records at their central processing bureau. At some stage it may be that car registrations with outstanding fines will appear on "PNC" checks as the French are very keen to stop the abuse of speed limits by foreign drivers. The reduction of the national speed limit from 90kph to 80kph in July will, no doubt, create a large increase in offending rates.

Dutch report

This is all very interesting but doesn't change the fact that Switzerland is not in the EU.


The link was intended to indicate the some national views. Switzerland obtained the OP's details despite the fact they are not a party to the Cross Border agreement so must have access to DVLA records as someone with "reasonable cause"!

The UK also may not be in the EU next year.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 09:34
Post #70


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,881
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (baroudeur @ Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 15:10) *
The link was intended to indicate the some national views. Switzerland obtained the OP's details despite the fact they are not a party to the Cross Border agreement so must have access to DVLA records as someone with "reasonable cause"!

The UK also may not be in the EU next year.

The bar for "reasonable cause" that is very low. I suspect that most law enforcement agencies in the world would be able to get details from DVLA if they submitted photos from a speed / red light camera and stated they needed the information to pursue a criminal investigation in relation to a road traffic offence in their territory, as this would plainly be a "reasonable cause".

This post has been edited by cp8759: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 09:34


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sg2015
post Wed, 8 Aug 2018 - 12:58
Post #71


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 28 Apr 2015
Member No.: 76,976



It's been a while...

I have got to the point where I can appeal, they have confirmed this.. I was planning on requesting calibration certs etc to get them to prove the fine is accurate. Is this a good idea?

I've also been told I can pay over 6 months, so £333 a month ohmy.gif

This post has been edited by sg2015: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 - 12:58
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 8 Aug 2018 - 14:25
Post #72


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,881
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (sg2015 @ Wed, 8 Aug 2018 - 13:58) *
It's been a while...

I have got to the point where I can appeal, they have confirmed this.. I was planning on requesting calibration certs etc to get them to prove the fine is accurate. Is this a good idea?

I've also been told I can pay over 6 months, so £333 a month ohmy.gif

Unless you're planning on going to Switzerland to contest the matter in court, or you want to hire a Swiss lawyer, I wouldn't bother. We don't even know if calibration certificates exist in Switzerland or if they do, how long they're valid for, who needs to produce them etc. So even if they reply, I'm not sure what you'd do with the information. You might also end up having to pay a much bigger fine, don't forget that the bigger 6000 CHF fine is suspended at the discretion of the prosecutor, so I wouldn't want to piss him off.

As with all foreign penalties, you pretty much need to decide whether you're going to pay or ignore, in the absence of a real defence anything else is just going to be a waste of time and money.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sg2015
post Wed, 8 Aug 2018 - 14:52
Post #73


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 28 Apr 2015
Member No.: 76,976



Fair comments.

I did ask the lady I was talking to if I contest it, if the fine could go up, she said no. But that was on the phone...

I've decided in my mind I'm probably guilty of the crime, so I should just pay then.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MFM
post Wed, 8 Aug 2018 - 15:15
Post #74


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 545
Joined: 5 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,550



If I were you I'd ask them for a heavily reduced fine otherwise you won't be able to pay it. They might budge as it's either that or nothing from their point of view.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 8 Aug 2018 - 15:59
Post #75


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,881
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (MFM @ Wed, 8 Aug 2018 - 16:15) *
If I were you I'd ask them for a heavily reduced fine otherwise you won't be able to pay it. They might budge as it's either that or nothing from their point of view.

From the paperwork it already looks like they've given him the minimum fine.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NeilNeil
post Sat, 11 Aug 2018 - 23:56
Post #76


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 198
Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Member No.: 13,203



QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 11:21) *
It's NOT 'just a speeding ticket' Speeding in Switzerland is a criminal offence and a serious transgression (and this one was!) could be subject to to prison sentence.


What would be the length of a typical prison sentence in this type of situation?
(just curious).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sg2015
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 07:47
Post #77


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 28 Apr 2015
Member No.: 76,976



So, payment plan has come through, but, again, not in English. I emailed requesting it to be in English, but I got this response:

QUOTE
We don’t have documents in English. You received a payment plan for six months. The monthly payments are CHF 458.35, first payment until end of October. You see the detailed payment-plan in the documents you received.

You can do the payments by bank transfer, you have all the necessary information on the second page of the payment plan. The IBAN is the international account number, the “Zwingend angeben” ist the reason of payment, the SWIFT is the international bank number.


As I've said before, without knowing what it says, I don't know what I'm agreeing too.

Am I being too fussy to want English paperwork, so I know what I'm agreeing too? I suppose they could argue I should get a translator...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
baroudeur
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 14:39
Post #78


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 413
Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Member No.: 73,212



QUOTE (sg2015 @ Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 08:47) *
So, payment plan has come through, but, again, not in English. I emailed requesting it to be in English, but I got this response:

QUOTE
We don’t have documents in English. You received a payment plan for six months. The monthly payments are CHF 458.35, first payment until end of October. You see the detailed payment-plan in the documents you received.

You can do the payments by bank transfer, you have all the necessary information on the second page of the payment plan. The IBAN is the international account number, the “Zwingend angeben” ist the reason of payment, the SWIFT is the international bank number.


As I've said before, without knowing what it says, I don't know what I'm agreeing too.

Am I being too fussy to want English paperwork, so I know what I'm agreeing too? I suppose they could argue I should get a translator...


You have the option of doing nothing especially if you are not intending to return to Switzerland. From memory the Swiss discount their motoring penalties so why you have arrived at such a large amount seems at odds with that.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sg2015
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 15:31
Post #79


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 28 Apr 2015
Member No.: 76,976



Right, but I've already said I want to pay. I broke the law, so I should pay. I also would like to visit Switzerland again, and who knows in the future what else it could limit me from.

The fine is the fine, how do you know they discount them? Clearly if you've got one and not paid, you'd not be going back. I have asked for a discount due to affordability but they are having none of it.

My concern is not the money, I've written it off now. My concern is what I maybe agreeing to by making a payment.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
baroudeur
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 16:18
Post #80


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 413
Joined: 24 Sep 2014
Member No.: 73,212



QUOTE (sg2015 @ Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 16:31) *
Right, but I've already said I want to pay. I broke the law, so I should pay. I also would like to visit Switzerland again, and who knows in the future what else it could limit me from.

The fine is the fine, how do you know they discount them? Clearly if you've got one and not paid, you'd not be going back. I have asked for a discount due to affordability but they are having none of it.

My concern is not the money, I've written it off now. My concern is what I maybe agreeing to by making a payment.



Going back over all the posts the original amount mentioned was "discounted" in that the CHF6000 is in abeyance if the fine and fee are paid. It seems odd that you have now been offered the chance to challenge at this late stage as that point appeared to have passed last year when you failed to respond.

You have been honest, admitted the offence and are willing to pay so why not do it? It's doubtful the Swiss will not be following correct procedures for the paperwork. Requiring correspondence to be in English seems to be counterproductive because, if you really need it, any translation app will provide that if you do not want to pay for a professional translation service.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

5 Pages V  « < 2 3 4 5 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Tuesday, 16th October 2018 - 11:07
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.