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Speeding ticket from Switzerland
sg2015
post Tue, 2 Jan 2018 - 16:14
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I was caught speeding in Switzerland in July, had a form asking for the drivers details to my name & address (registered keeper) come through in November. I filled this in and a fine has been produced, arriving 27th Dec (happy Christmas!). The first letter had German and English, but the second letter only has German, so I've no idea what it says! Apart from the fine is fairly obvious (has a big TOTAL mark)

It's for 136kph in an 80kph, which is then reduced to 130kph due to adjustments. Fine is 2700CHF, approx £2050. No salary was given etc.

What are my options? TIA
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post Tue, 2 Jan 2018 - 16:14
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cp8759
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 14:03
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QUOTE (sg2015 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:33) *
I have spoken with them on the phone and requested an letter in English. Which I shall receive in a week.

I was told at that point I can contest it, or request monthly payments.

the CHF6000 is if I am caught speeding again, the CHF2700 is the fine for this instance, and no late fees or anything on that. (as someone has already said)

Just out of interest, assuming everything is in order with the letter in English, do you plan on contesting this? You need to consider that you would probably need to return to Switzerland to stand trial, or instruct a Swiss lawyer.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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sg2015
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 15:44
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I want to understand what I am signing, and see what their processes are. Take it from there.
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Churchmouse
post Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 22:01
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QUOTE (sg2015 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 15:44) *
I want to understand what I am signing, and see what their processes are. Take it from there.

Yes, and then you can also better determine if they have followed all of the applicable requirements to the letter.

--Churchmouse
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baroudeur
post Tue, 9 Jan 2018 - 15:15
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QUOTE (sg2015 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:33) *
I have spoken with them on the phone and requested an letter in English. Which I shall receive in a week.

I was told at that point I can contest it, or request monthly payments.

the CHF6000 is if I am caught speeding again, the CHF2700 is the fine for this instance, and no late fees or anything on that. (as someone has already said)


The fine (busse) is 1500 and 1200 is the processing fee (Gebuhren)

To quote from the earlier link.......

The fine is only part of the total cost that will incur. There are also court fees and fees for driving bans and warnings!
The court fee depends on the Canton and court and the possible range is CHF 80 up to 2000
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sg2015
post Tue, 9 Jan 2018 - 15:17
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Tue, 9 Jan 2018 - 16:15) *
QUOTE (sg2015 @ Mon, 8 Jan 2018 - 13:33) *
I have spoken with them on the phone and requested an letter in English. Which I shall receive in a week.

I was told at that point I can contest it, or request monthly payments.

the CHF6000 is if I am caught speeding again, the CHF2700 is the fine for this instance, and no late fees or anything on that. (as someone has already said)


The fine (busse) is 1500 and 1200 is the processing fee (Gebuhren)

To quote from the earlier link.......

The fine is only part of the total cost that will incur. There are also court fees and fees for driving bans and warnings!
The court fee depends on the Canton and court and the possible range is CHF 80 up to 2000


Yes, but not a 'late fee' like previously thought. It's just a fee.
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Clear Skies
post Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 18:38
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Somewhere in the euro legislation

You are entitled to communications in your own language from any government official.


You have already requested the document in English...

Good luck


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cp8759
post Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 21:22
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QUOTE (Clear Skies @ Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 18:38) *
Somewhere in the euro legislation

We've been through this already, see post 5.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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sg2015
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 13:43
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Still no English letter, do I just wait and hope it never turns up? I've asked, albeit on the phone, a fair request to have the letter in my native tongue, before signing it.

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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 15:07
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Why not send a request formally in writing, keeping a copy, proof of posting etc?
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sg2015
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 12:54
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So, I requested it in English, and it's finally come through.

Weirdly, it's come through with 2 'return to sender' royal mail photocopies. As if it's not been getting to me... not sure why they included them.


Attached Image



Attached Image


This post has been edited by sg2015: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 13:00
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cp8759
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 15:16
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It all seems pretty self-explanatory now that we can read what it says. £1,960 seems pretty harsh for doing 80 in a 50, but the fact that you would probably be punished less harshly in the UK is neither here nor there.

At this point you need to decide what course of action to take, as it does't sound like you have any defence in law (this somewhat depends on whether you ever plan on visiting Switzerland again). If you don't pay and are ever stopped by the Swiss authorities, it looks like you'd have to pay around £6,300 or risk a stint in jail. On the other had if you ignore it and never visit Switzerland again, I don't see any chance whatsoever of a court entertaining an extradition request, given that at the end of the day it's just a speeding ticket. As Switzerland is not an EU member state, there is no mechanism for them to enforce payment of the fine.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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bill w
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 17:03
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 16:16) *
It all seems pretty self-explanatory now that we can read what it says. £1,960 seems pretty harsh for doing 80 in a 50, but the fact that you would probably be punished less harshly in the UK is neither here nor there.



If I'm reading it correctly , it's for exceeding an 80kph limit by at least 50kph, so actually 130+ in an 80 limit.
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cp8759
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 17:21
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QUOTE (bill w @ Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 18:03) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 16:16) *
It all seems pretty self-explanatory now that we can read what it says. £1,960 seems pretty harsh for doing 80 in a 50, but the fact that you would probably be punished less harshly in the UK is neither here nor there.



If I'm reading it correctly , it's for exceeding an 80kph limit by at least 50kph, so actually 130+ in an 80 limit.

It is for exceeding an 80kph limit by at least 50kph, which is 80 mph in a 50 mph limit.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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sg2015
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 09:27
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Yes, 130KPH in an 80KPH, I was overtaking...

It's steep, but I don't want to have to avoid that place or worry about being sent there for work ever. I will ask for a repayment plan to make it less intense.
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baroudeur
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 10:10
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QUOTE (sg2015 @ Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 12:54) *
So, I requested it in English, and it's finally come through.

Weirdly, it's come through with 2 'return to sender' royal mail photocopies. As if it's not been getting to me... not sure why they included them.


Attached Image



Attached Image


My post 26 indicating the way the costs are calculated was correct!

The inclusion of the "return to sender" photocopies may be to confirm that the letter had been sent but returned because of non-delivery for some reason.
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Churchmouse
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 17:24
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I think we're still missing any information about the "hearing" step--you went from identification directly to conviction! Maybe that's just the way things work there...

--Churchmouse
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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 20:50
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QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 18:24) *
I think we're still missing any information about the "hearing" step--you went from identification directly to conviction! Maybe that's just the way things work there...

--Churchmouse

From looking at the letter and the Swiss Criminal Code, it sounds like the prosecutor imposes the fine himself and if you object you have to appeal. No breach of ECHR article 6 because if you want it to go to a court hearing you can challenge it, but with an extra 6000 CHF in play and no defence, I don't see the point.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 21:05
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 21:50) *
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 18:24) *
I think we're still missing any information about the "hearing" step--you went from identification directly to conviction! Maybe that's just the way things work there...

--Churchmouse

From looking at the letter and the Swiss Criminal Code, it sounds like the prosecutor imposes the fine himself and if you object you have to appeal. No breach of ECHR article 6 because if you want it to go to a court hearing you can challenge it, but with an extra 6000 CHF in play and no defence, I don't see the point.


Sounds just like a FPN.

Does the EU mechanism for cross boarder enforcement include Switzerland ?
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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 21:10
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 22:05) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 21:50) *
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 18:24) *
I think we're still missing any information about the "hearing" step--you went from identification directly to conviction! Maybe that's just the way things work there...

--Churchmouse

From looking at the letter and the Swiss Criminal Code, it sounds like the prosecutor imposes the fine himself and if you object you have to appeal. No breach of ECHR article 6 because if you want it to go to a court hearing you can challenge it, but with an extra 6000 CHF in play and no defence, I don't see the point.


Sounds just like a FPN.

Does the EU mechanism for cross boarder enforcement include Switzerland ?

Switzerland is not an EU member state, CrimPR rule 30.10 makes explicit reference to "Financial penalties imposed in other European Union member States" so I would think not.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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baroudeur
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 10:49
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 21:10) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 22:05) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 21:50) *
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 18:24) *
I think we're still missing any information about the "hearing" step--you went from identification directly to conviction! Maybe that's just the way things work there...

--Churchmouse

From looking at the letter and the Swiss Criminal Code, it sounds like the prosecutor imposes the fine himself and if you object you have to appeal. No breach of ECHR article 6 because if you want it to go to a court hearing you can challenge it, but with an extra 6000 CHF in play and no defence, I don't see the point.


Sounds just like a FPN.

Does the EU mechanism for cross boarder enforcement include Switzerland ?

Switzerland is not an EU member state, CrimPR rule 30.10 makes explicit reference to "Financial penalties imposed in other European Union member States" so I would think not.


Cross-Border Enforcement relates only to the specific motoring offences for which an application may be made for the vehicle keeper/owner/driver details from DVLA. There is nothing in it about the recovery of any penalty charges. Switzerland, like any other non-EU country can apply to DVLA, and presumably, obtain such information outwith the terms of the CBE

Speeding is a criminal offence in Switzerland and challenging a speeding penalty, obtained with the use of approved equipment, will be extrememly difficult and expensive. In the UK the advice in similar circumstances, more often than not, is to pay.

Whether the Swiss will attempt to recover unpaid penalties as a debt through a civil claim in the UK remains to be seen. Some Italian authorities appear to be using Claims Management Companies but, so far, no court cases have been reported but one International Claims Management Company is pressing hard in the EU for it to be approved for cross border recovery
How long before recovery of unpaid penalties within the EU becomes the norm? Some countries already have such agreements in place.
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