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Hounslow Council - 34 Being in a Bus Lane (Whilst Parking!)
efunc
post Mon, 20 Mar 2023 - 00:29
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Hello, I would welcome some advice on this please. London Menace of Hounslow have issued us a PCN for the contravention of "Being in a Bus Lane".

The bus lane in question is on Chiswick High Road, a short bus lane along which are situated 3 Parking and Loading bays. You cannot park in these bays without crossing said Bus Lane. Our vehicle is photographed having tried to park in the first bay and then spotting a more suitable space in the adjoining bay and so maneuvering to the next spot. Loading is permitted "Mon-Sat, 7am - 7pm, 20 mins, No return within 1 hour". I realise that this is not a parking fine, however we parked for 10 mins to enter the shop opposite the bay to return an item, and have the receipt for the transaction, dated and timestamped.

Are there any grounds to contest this based on the fact that we were simply trying to access the loading bay not drive in a bus lane? We had absolutely no other reason to be in the bus lane as it can clearly be seen that the high road we were actually driving along was completely clear anyway!

longitude: -0.26811 latitude: 51.49296





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Any advice would be gratefully received.

Thanks!

This post has been edited by efunc: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 - 10:29
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post Mon, 20 Mar 2023 - 00:29
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Schofeldt
post Fri, 31 Mar 2023 - 12:16
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Just wait for the Enforcement Notice. If they wish to go to the 5th set, that is their problem. As ever, if I represent anyone re a London Bus lane PCN and lose at the Tribunal, I will pay £65 towards it. What a liberty!


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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efunc
post Fri, 31 Mar 2023 - 21:53
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QUOTE (Schofeldt @ Fri, 31 Mar 2023 - 12:16) *
Just wait for the Enforcement Notice. If they wish to go to the 5th set, that is their problem. As ever, if I represent anyone re a London Bus lane PCN and lose at the Tribunal, I will pay £65 towards it. What a liberty!

I see, so you advise making a formal representation using the Enforcement Notice form? Would I just resubmit the original representation already sent to them? Presumably this is also decided by the council, and would then have to be appealed.
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Schofeldt
post Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 00:28
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Depends how you want to play it. I would send something stronger next time and to the point.


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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efunc
post Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 02:16
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QUOTE (Schofeldt @ Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 00:28) *
Depends how you want to play it. I would send something stronger next time and to the point.

Understood, I'll see what I can do. It was my partner driving, I was just the passenger. Like most people she is strongly deterred following the first setback would prefer to settle up right now, but I'll try to convince her to perceiver.
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Schofeldt
post Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 06:58
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Trust us! If she settles now, she will join The Mugged Club. This is their game. If she continues and fights, the VCA certificate will be found to be invalid.

This should convince her: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t=#entry1768834

Question: why do you think they have applied for new certificates?

Answer: so that the new certificates satisfy the criterion of admissibility of evidence at the Tribunal.


We have just successfully got a Greenwich PCN cancelled before the Tribunal stage.

This post has been edited by Schofeldt: Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 07:04


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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cp8759
post Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 14:22
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QUOTE (efunc @ Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 03:16) *
QUOTE (Schofeldt @ Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 00:28) *
Depends how you want to play it. I would send something stronger next time and to the point.

Understood, I'll see what I can do. It was my partner driving, I was just the passenger. Like most people she is strongly deterred following the first setback would prefer to settle up right now, but I'll try to convince her to perceiver.

This is what councils count on. Take the key decision in Davy Duthieuw v London Borough of Ealing listed here: https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/key-cases

I found out during the proceedings that Ealing council had issued 13 PCNs on the day, and only Mr Duthieuw appealed, everyone else paid. So basically as the PCNs were all invalid, the first 12 people got mugged. Ask your partner if she wants to join the mugged club, or the savvy Davy club.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 14:24


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Schofeldt
post Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 14:27
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I have been thinking a lot about this appalling attitude. Is it ignorance? Or is it wilful maladministration? All I do know is that we have had 100% success as it concerns a fundamental point of law. I reckon between cp and me we have scored over 50 successes so far. His ca. double mine. And there are more in the pipeline.

This post has been edited by Schofeldt: Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 14:37


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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efunc
post Sat, 6 May 2023 - 23:10
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 1 Apr 2023 - 14:22) *
I found out during the proceedings that Ealing council had issued 13 PCNs on the day, and only Mr Duthieuw appealed, everyone else paid. So basically as the PCNs were all invalid, the first 12 people got mugged. Ask your partner if she wants to join the mugged club, or the savvy Davy club.


After much discussion, and convincing of my partner, I can confirm that we wish to sign up to the savvy davy club. The following document just arrived on our doormat:







So, presumably this representation would aim to be a bit more persuasive?
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cp8759
post Mon, 8 May 2023 - 20:36
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Just make the same representation again and let us know when you get the Notice of Rejection. One of us will then sort out the tribunal appeal for you.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Mon, 8 May 2023 - 20:37


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efunc
post Tue, 9 May 2023 - 21:51
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 8 May 2023 - 20:36) *
Just make the same representation again and let us know when you get the Notice of Rejection. One of us will then sort out the tribunal appeal for you.

Thank you, we will do that and report back.
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efunc
post Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 13:19
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 8 May 2023 - 20:36) *
Just make the same representation again and let us know when you get the Notice of Rejection. One of us will then sort out the tribunal appeal for you.


Sadly Hounslow have finally responded:

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John U.K.
post Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 14:10
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Am I alone in wondering what Mr Squiggle, the Appeals and Monitoring Officer, is on???

Has he read his department's letter of the 30th.March (post#20)?
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efunc
post Sat, 10 Jun 2023 - 10:04
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 8 May 2023 - 20:36) *
Just make the same representation again and let us know when you get the Notice of Rejection. One of us will then sort out the tribunal appeal for you.


cp8759, is it possible that they have some info we do not? Their response seems so bizarrely dismissive it's a slight concern! What do you think?
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Schofeldt
post Tue, 13 Jun 2023 - 07:06
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efunc: It is tribunal time and I am happy to represent you if you so wish. There is also a wording issue with the Enforcement Notice and, of course, they do not have a VCA certificate which satisfies the criterions of admissibility of evidence provided at para. 7 (2) of Schedule 1 of the LLA Act 1996 (as amended). This kind of intransigent approach from councils is converting into costs, most recently against Brent and Harrow. 2230136090 achieved costs and is similar in that they used a VCA certificate which did not apply.
QUOTE (John U.K. @ Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 15:10) *
Am I alone in wondering what Mr Squiggle, the Appeals and Monitoring Officer, is on???

Has he read his department's letter of the 30th.March (post#20)?

He clearly has not read the letter from the DfT to London Councils of 17th November!

This post has been edited by Schofeldt: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 - 07:13


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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efunc
post Tue, 13 Jun 2023 - 09:11
Post #35


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QUOTE (Schofeldt @ Tue, 13 Jun 2023 - 08:06) *
efunc: It is tribunal time and I am happy to represent you if you so wish. There is also a wording issue with the Enforcement Notice and, of course, they do not have a VCA certificate which satisfies the criterions of admissibility of evidence provided at para. 7 (2) of Schedule 1 of the LLA Act 1996 (as amended).

That would be wonderful, thank you. There isn't any info about the tribunal in the letter from the council, so I'm guessing this is an independant application process. I have tried to message you but I think your inbox may be full. I can start by completing in a 'Letter of Authority' if that sounds right. Thanks
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cp8759
post Sun, 18 Jun 2023 - 12:29
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Thread continued here: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-no...-in-a-bus-lane/


--------------------
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Schofeldt
post Fri, 2 Feb 2024 - 13:16
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This matter has had a chequered history, to say the least. You issued a Penalty Charge Notice code 34j to the appellant when, at the time, you did not even possess a valid certificate from the VCA to satisfy the criterion of admissibility of evidence provided at para. 7(2) of Schedule 1 to the London Local Authorities Act 1996 (as amended). Furthermore, the camera at the location does not have a certificate either.

I note that you issued a Charge Certificate but have not followed this up with an Order for Recovery. The appellant made formal representations against the Enforcement Notice but received no proper NOR. Indeed, the correspondence I have seen pertaining to this case beggars belief.

In light of this clear and very substantial departure from the statutory scheme, I request that you cancel the said PCN and Charge Certificate forthwith. Please also register this with your complaints department.

I look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully

007



--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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Schofeldt
post Fri, 2 Feb 2024 - 20:44
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Thank you for your email. I have looked at the PCN and can confirm that it has been cancelled due to a processing error.

Curtis Gayle I Appeal & Monitoring Officer
Traffic, Transport & Parking, London Borough of Hounslow
Hounslow House, 7 Bath Road, Hounslow, TW3 3EB


See it. Say it. Sorted. 18.06 p.m.

The end of the beginning..............

https://hounslow.tarantoportal.com/

Link says: No Matches. No records could be found for this criteria. OK

I thought "criteria" was plural!

This post has been edited by Schofeldt: Fri, 2 Feb 2024 - 21:03


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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astralite
post Fri, 2 Feb 2024 - 21:37
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Well done.
Very glad to see efunc’s patience rewarded.

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Schofeldt
post Sat, 3 Feb 2024 - 13:37
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More to follow as they have lined their coffers without any camera authorisation.


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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