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Charge notice for unauthorised parking and causing obstruction
rubadubdub
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 11:41
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Hi
some advice please. A car has had a PCN stuck on it. The site is a hospital and the security guards put notices on cars (eg on double yellows) for car parking partnership. The car was parked overnight in a small side car park for on site staff accommodation that this company doesn't cover, as is the case for the on site nursery car park. This area gets used at nights as staff know the security guards aren't allowed to ticket this area as its run by a different company. There are few marked bays and an unmarked area in front of the accommodation building that people park on regularly but isn't marked as a bay. This is the area that a car has been ticketed as causing an obstruction, other cars in bays weren't ticketed.

If the security guards have no jurisdiction to issue PCN for not paying for parking, is it likely they have rights to issue for obstruction? The car wasn't blocking any other cars or hospital activity, but could be argued was blocking pedestrians walking to the accommodation, which they do not cover.

So in short, this car was probably parked somewhere a bit stupid but it is felt that the people who issued it cannot legitimately do so, so should it be paid?

Would it be best to wait for the keeper to receive a notice to keeper, then appeal to then POPLA? Or cough up 25 quid (increases to 50 after 14 days) and reflect on parking choices?

If POPLA rule against an owner is it likely they'll have to pay anything more than 25 or 50 quid demanded initially?

The signs are poor, none on entry to this side area. One sign is on the end of a building not visible form the parking bay which says no parking but this faces double yellows, not the car park. So potentially could be argued.

Thanks

This post has been edited by rubadubdub: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 12:09
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post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 11:41
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ManxRed
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 12:00
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What do the signs say? What makes you think they have no jurisdiction there?


--------------------
Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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rubadubdub
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 12:17
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They have CPP and BPA logos and just say no parking 50 quid fine. But inside the bays no-one is ever issued tickets. Outside of the bays a ticket has been issued. There's no means to pay for this area as its open, in front of a block of flats on site. Its local knowledge that the bays dont get issued tickets, rather than any concrete info.

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This isn't facing the car park bays and isnt visible from them.

This post has been edited by rubadubdub: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 12:19
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Eljayjay
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 12:28
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Presumably, the site belongs to an NHS Trust or similar organisation, in which case you need to ask them what areas are covered by the parking operator.

The sign which you posted is an example of a forbidding sign. A parking operator cannot, through its signage or by any other means, say "NO PARKING" in one breath and then offer parking in the next.
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rubadubdub
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 12:31
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by offer parking, do you mean at a rate of £50 fine to park there?
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Eljayjay
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 12:36
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It is not a fine, it is a parking charge. But, yes, that is what I mean.

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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 13:22
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Indeed.
Theyre not OFFERING parking at all
They are FORBIDDING it. They cannot then say there was a contract on *offer* to park at £50

Again, how do you *know* they cannot ticket there? You have seen the cpontract? Had it confirmed by the landowner? Or are you *guessing*?
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rubadubdub
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 16:45
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 14:22) *
Again, how do you *know* they cannot ticket there? You have seen the cpontract? Had it confirmed by the landowner? Or are you *guessing*?


No-ones seen any contract or spoken to a landowner. Just rumour among staff and experience. Relying on the security guards lack of authority over the area would seem like a risky single line of argument given the paucity of hard facts. However, is this arguable any other way? The replies above suggest they cannot argue a contract when no parking contract was offered, if I've understood correctly?
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Churchmouse
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 00:56
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QUOTE (rubadubdub @ Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 17:45) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 14:22) *
Again, how do you *know* they cannot ticket there? You have seen the cpontract? Had it confirmed by the landowner? Or are you *guessing*?


No-ones seen any contract or spoken to a landowner. Just rumour among staff and experience. Relying on the security guards lack of authority over the area would seem like a risky single line of argument given the paucity of hard facts. However, is this arguable any other way? The replies above suggest they cannot argue a contract when no parking contract was offered, if I've understood correctly?

They shouldn't be able to prevail in court, but that doesn't mean that they cannot harass/beg for the money for the next six years...

They may give up before then, depending on what the RK does and their laziness/litigiousness. Not much can be done until the PPC contacts the RK.

(By the way, I love that sign. So succinct. I'm keeping a copy of it for my amusement.)

--Churchmouse
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