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Excel ticket issued, Parked without ticket displayed - do I appeal?
Triumph1000
post Sat, 28 Mar 2020 - 12:30
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Just opened a Excel parking notice issue on early March 2020 - saying no ticket was displayed on the parked vehicle.

May I ask for help to see if I can appeal this - or should I just ignore?

Thank you in advance.
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post Sat, 28 Mar 2020 - 12:30
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Triumph1000
post Sat, 28 Mar 2020 - 20:17
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Ok thank you. I will take some photos tomorrow.

Can I ask about your explanation- so I understand why they have made a mistake.

“In case you are wondering the time period is incorrect. It is the time from the given date not the issue date. There is also no valid period of parking”
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Jlc
post Sat, 28 Mar 2020 - 20:48
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It's still winnable but don't assume the minor transgression of PoFA is a sure fire winner. The judge may well agree it is substantively compliant.

They will probably trip over other items along the way. Not least their favourite game of escalation which is often being seen as an abuse of process.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ostell
post Sat, 28 Mar 2020 - 20:49
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They have referred to an incorrect reference date. Date issued is the date they sent it, given date is the date it arrives, assumed to be 2 working days later. That can be several days later if there are public holidays in between.

Period of parking - as it says the time the car was parked
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Triumph1000
post Sun, 29 Mar 2020 - 09:44
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Thank you.

So - what happens after I send them the letter. Will I receive a ccj request - do I have to go to court?
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Jlc
post Sun, 29 Mar 2020 - 10:32
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They will reject any appeal.

Then eventually send a letter before claim (which gives you 30 days to respond).

Then they'll raise a claim.

You don't get a CCJ unless you lose and then fail to pay within 1 month.

Be prepared to go to a hearing.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Triumph1000
post Sun, 29 Mar 2020 - 10:55
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Ok. I think it’s best to plan my reasons for the hearing.

They made a mistake with PoFA and there was poor lit signage at the car park - therefore I was unaware of requirement to purchase ticket.

Am I being naive ?

I not sure what I should say......... what if they ask why a ticket was not displayed?
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Jlc
post Sun, 29 Mar 2020 - 11:22
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QUOTE (Triumph1000 @ Sun, 29 Mar 2020 - 11:55) *
what if they ask why a ticket was not displayed?

Was one purchased and fell to the floor as you stated?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Triumph1000
post Sun, 29 Mar 2020 - 12:43
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Absolutely
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Triumph1000
post Sun, 29 Mar 2020 - 13:16
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Has anyone used parkingfines.org.uk ?

Are they reputable?
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ostell
post Sun, 29 Mar 2020 - 16:51
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There have been several versions of this service available. Most seem to flounder and not contactable at critical times.

Don't know this one, give it a try and report back. It's only £18
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Triumph1000
post Sun, 29 Mar 2020 - 16:55
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I would just like to say thank you all for your help.
I cannot decide whether to pursue it - due to having to go to court and not know what to say.

However- I have nothing to lose by returning appeal letters and ignored until the court notice comes.
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Triumph1000
post Mon, 30 Mar 2020 - 11:26
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Can I ask - If they decide to go to court and win - how much in total would someone need to pay.
Currently they want £100 from me.
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Jlc
post Mon, 30 Mar 2020 - 12:19
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They are still escalating that by £60. (Which could be their downfall)

Then there are allowed fixed court costs - £25 claim fee, £50 solicitors.

They can also claim statutory interest at 8% pa.

If it goes to a hearing then another £25 fee.

That should be it - unless they can claim additional costs due to the defendant being 'unreasonable' - which is unlikely here.

Most adverse judgment are around £200-250.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Triumph1000
post Fri, 29 May 2020 - 15:25
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Hi,

So I decided not to pay and guess what???

They have sent me a letter asking for £160 and threatened County court action

I’ve attached the letter. https://imgur.com/gallery/pC4meHq

Any advice what to do now would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

This post has been edited by Triumph1000: Fri, 29 May 2020 - 15:26
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Dave65
post Fri, 29 May 2020 - 21:54
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Yes as expected they have added the £60 debt fee.
A lot of courts are dismissing these claims as an abuse of process.
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Triumph1000
post Sat, 30 May 2020 - 06:46
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Has any been to court before? What did you say to defend yourself?

I’m going with:

1) ticket purchased and not seen by parking attendant (May have fallen on the floor). No proof of purchasing the ticket.
2) Failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 (wrong dates on time to reply)
3) escalating process by £60 - abuse of power

Are there any points I am missing that I could use on court ?

Thank you.
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ostell
post Sat, 30 May 2020 - 08:20
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3} Abuse of process. Adding more to the debt to attempt to recover more then is due.
2) Failure to correctly state keeper liability and no period of parking. Both of which must be stated.


Signage?

This post has been edited by ostell: Sat, 30 May 2020 - 08:23
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Triumph1000
post Sat, 30 May 2020 - 10:34
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Thank you.

Failure to correctly state keeper liability —— Do you mean that they do not know who the driver of the vehicle was?

No period of parking................does that mean the length of time parked up has not been detailed?

It was dark so signage not easy to read.

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nosferatu1001
post Sat, 30 May 2020 - 12:33
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Of course they don't know who drove. U less you told them!

Keeper liability is enabled through complying with pofa. Have they?

MSE forum draft defence from feb 2020. Read it.
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ostell
post Sat, 30 May 2020 - 12:36
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Have you been reading other threads? I doubt it by the questions you are asking

How the heck can they know who the driver was? Unless they've been told. They only have the identity of the registered keeper. If they don't comply with the requirements of POFA then they can't hold the keeper liable.

Have you actually read POFA to see what they are required to do to hold the keeper liable? http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9...edule/4/enacted

The are required to state the period of parking POFA 9 (2) (a) Pictures of in and out went the car is moving cannot, by definition, be parking

If it was dark and the signs were not illuminated, as required by their Code of Practise, then how can they expect to create a contract when the terms cannot be read?
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