PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Armtrac Security Services!, Parking charge notice in Falmouth
Decado
post Sun, 17 Mar 2013 - 15:57
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 51
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,604



Hi

Hope someone here can give me some advice. I have had a look through the topics and see the name of Armtrac coming up regularly.

I parked in a car park in Falmouth yesterday and put in £2.20 (for two hours) into the ticket machine, took the ticket and placed it on the dash board. Came back 1.5 hours later to find a Parking Charge Notice on the windscreen. We were puzzled as we had paid for two hours. However, looking at the ticket the fee is shown as £2 and the expiry time 30 minutes before we got back to the car. It would appear that the 20p was not accepted by the ticket machine or it is faulty.

Having done some research on KBT Cornwall Ltd trading as Armtrac Security Services it would appear that the best advice is to ignore them. is this still the case?

The ticket that has been issued is really poorly hand written and I can't work out which car park I was supposed to be in as it is unreadable.

Any advice gratefully accepted.

Regards

Paul
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
5 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Sun, 17 Mar 2013 - 15:57
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Gan
post Sun, 17 Mar 2013 - 16:09
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 22,678
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Member No.: 27,239



The usual advice is moving toward challenging a ticket and requesting a POPLA code if it isn't cancelled.

This costs them £27 so companies try to avoid providing the codes to targets that won't pay whatever POPLA says

Assuming that you must have paid considerably more than the one hour rate, there's no chance that they would risk court for 20p

You could therefore, with your challenge, include a copy of the ticket you paid for and 20p for the difference.

This needs moving to the private tickets forum
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Decado
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 09:56
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 51
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,604



QUOTE (Gan @ Sun, 17 Mar 2013 - 16:09) *
The usual advice is moving toward challenging a ticket and requesting a POPLA code if it isn't cancelled.

This costs them £27 so companies try to avoid providing the codes to targets that won't pay whatever POPLA says

Assuming that you must have paid considerably more than the one hour rate, there's no chance that they would risk court for 20p

You could therefore, with your challenge, include a copy of the ticket you paid for and 20p for the difference.

This needs moving to the private tickets forum


Thanks Gan

I'll send them a letter detailing what I paid -£2.20 - and the fact that the ticket machine gave me a ticket for £2 which their operative will have taken a photograph of for "evidence".

Is there any advice on what I should AVOID saying? Anything that they can use against me which they might interprete as me accepting "guilt".

Just like to say thanks for your advice (and all the other guys who give freely of their time on this forum).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ManxRed
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 10:00
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9,946
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Member No.: 21,992



Post the letter up here before you send it, we'll soon advise if there is anything in there that we feel might be said in a better way.


--------------------
Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Salmosalaris
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 10:17
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,327
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Member No.: 59,283



First thing to study is the PCN . Is it schedule 4 compliant to let them invoke keeper liability ?. If its not , they can only chase the driver. In that case wait for the letter to keeper then contact them for a popla code to dispute it on this basis. One idea


--------------------
Note, I am not legally qualified and not offering legal advice .Liability for application of anything I say lies with the reader
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Decado
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 10:28
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 51
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,604



QUOTE (Salmosalaris @ Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 10:17) *
First thing to study is the PCN . Is it schedule 4 compliant to let them invoke keeper liability ?. If its not , they can only chase the driver. In that case wait for the letter to keeper then contact them for a popla code to dispute it on this basis. One idea


How do I find out if it is Schedule 4 compliant?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kommando
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 10:30
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,167
Joined: 6 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,558



QUOTE
How do I find out if it is Schedule 4 compliant?


Post it here with identification digitally removed, leave the original as it is.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Decado
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 11:45
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 51
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,604



QUOTE (ManxRed @ Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 10:00) *
Post the letter up here before you send it, we'll soon advise if there is anything in there that we feel might be said in a better way.


This is the letter I intend to send:

Dear Sir or Madam

Report on faulty parking ticket machine

With reference to ticket number XXXX, dated XXXXXX the charge for the car park in question is £2.20 for two hours parking. £2.20 was inserted into the ticket machine but a ticket for only £2 was issued.

The conclusion, therefore, is that your ticket machine is faulty and requires servicing and repairing so as to avoid any possible occurrences of the above in the future.

I trust that you find this information useful.

Yours, etc


Trying to avoid any suggestion of an appeal or admission of guilt on my part.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Salmosalaris
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 12:01
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,327
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Member No.: 59,283



Id like to see PCN before passing comment


--------------------
Note, I am not legally qualified and not offering legal advice .Liability for application of anything I say lies with the reader
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gan
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 12:26
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 22,678
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Member No.: 27,239



I wouldn't send anything until they've wasted £2-50 to get your details from DVLA
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Salmosalaris
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 12:32
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,327
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Member No.: 59,283



+1


--------------------
Note, I am not legally qualified and not offering legal advice .Liability for application of anything I say lies with the reader
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Decado
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 14:38
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 51
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,604



QUOTE (kommando @ Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 10:30) *
QUOTE
How do I find out if it is Schedule 4 compliant?


Post it here with identification digitally removed, leave the original as it is.


Hopefully this will work.

Front and back of the PCN as requested.





This post has been edited by Decado: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 15:24
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gan
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 15:00
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 22,678
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Member No.: 27,239



Hiding a model and registration number but leaving dates, times and ticket number isn't removing identification
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Decado
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 15:25
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 51
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,604



QUOTE (Decado @ Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 15:18) *
QUOTE (Gan @ Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 15:00) *
Hiding a model and registration number but leaving dates, times and ticket number isn't removing identification



Okay, edited the post. Thanks for pointing that out Gan.

This post has been edited by Decado: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 15:26
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ming Rider
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 15:31
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 231
Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Member No.: 59,250



OP, you're right. That is appalling hand writing. Where was this person educated, Chessington Zoo ?

If I'm not mistaken, the signature of the Patrolling Officer says 'M. Gibbon'.

Also, it says at the bottom of the invoice, "See overleaf for the action you MUST take." Misrepresentation surely and therefore, fraud ??

This post has been edited by Ming Rider: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 15:35


--------------------
I know you're out there. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you. A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries; a world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Glacier2
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 15:46
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 10,269
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 1,131



These are the same crowd that issued notices under the RTRA 1984 citing a made up order.

I would just ignore them.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Salmosalaris
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 16:00
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,327
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Member No.: 59,283



I wouldnt rely purely on bad handwriting to make it non compliant. .Therefore the choice is yours.
A. Ignore unless you get stamped court papers
B . Await letter to keeper , they may screw up on the requirements for that and it costs them £2-50. Then write to PPC . Ask them to detail their case, whether it is for a contractual charge,breach of contract or trespass, so that you may prepare your defence. Demand a popla verification code unless they cancel your charge.
C. Contact now , much as in the letter you posted , but add the points mentioned in B. Trouble is POPLA isnt interested in mitigating circumstances so the problems with the machine wouldnt be considered .

Was signage adequate ?


--------------------
Note, I am not legally qualified and not offering legal advice .Liability for application of anything I say lies with the reader
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Decado
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 16:15
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 51
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,604



QUOTE (Salmosalaris @ Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 16:00) *
I wouldnt rely purely on bad handwriting to make it non compliant. .Therefore the choice is yours.
A. Ignore unless you get stamped court papers
B . Await letter to keeper , they may screw up on the requirements for that and it costs them £2-50. Then write to PPC . Ask them to detail their case, whether it is for a contractual charge,breach of contract or trespass, so that you may prepare your defence. Demand a popla verification code unless they cancel your charge.
C. Contact now , much as in the letter you posted , but add the points mentioned in B. Trouble is POPLA isnt interested in mitigating circumstances so the problems with the machine wouldnt be considered .

Was signage adequate ?


The signage was adequate so I can't use that.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 16:42
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 37,346
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



As the machine gobbled the 20p there is no loss.

Who owns the land? Who gets the normal parking fees? Or does Armtrac just scrape off the penalty charge? (Possibly with some form of kickback?)

Or does this link reveal?

QUOTE
Armtrac were not available for comment at the time of going to press. Amy Glover, visitor services manager for the National Maritime Museum said: “These cases are new to us and we haven’t heard from these individuals – but would be very happy to.

“We are responsible for the car park and contract Armtrac to manage the daily operations. We are governed by our planning permission which has a requirement for us to manage the car park.

“We do liaise with Armtrac to police the conditions of use. These terms and conditions are displayed in the car park, and as long as Armtrac enforce according to these, we cannot interfere with their operation.

We do not pay Armtrac a fee, and therefore it is at their discretion whether to pursue a fine or not.

“On occasions where we feel that there is a grey area concerning the fine we do intervene with Armtrac and request a review of the fine given.”


Interesting bits in bold.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 16:43


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Decado
post Mon, 18 Mar 2013 - 17:08
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 51
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,604



It would be interesting to see the contract that Armtrac have with the Museum, if any! Or does Armtrac need a contract with them?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

5 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Saturday, 4th December 2021 - 20:19
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.