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Swiss License/Residence UK Speeding., Speeding Offence M20
Cata1yst
post Wed, 17 Jun 2015 - 07:38
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To cut this short I was speeding on the M20 towards the Eurotunnel a PC plod pulled me over.

I was trying to get to the tunnel in my allotted time after they closed 3 junctions of the M25 (not that it matters)

This was Easter 2015.

Supposedly Kent PC plod measured 103 mph between x2 bridges. Using his protractor and the finger in the air test (not that it matters)

I hold a Swiss Licence and I rarely visit the UK (which I know they cannot take, so a ban has little effect on me) and was driving a Swiss plated car. I also live in Switzerland.

Anyway as the copper pulls me over and asks for my parents home address in Cornwall or 500 quid (which I did not have on me). He informs me that he intends to send me to have my day in court.

So I have a few questions.

I don't intend to appeal and just suck it up like a good boy. (Plead guilty and pay the fine)

Am I ever likely to receive this paperwork at my parents address? It's been months now.

Do I have to attend the court in person? This could be a pain in the arse (primary concern)

Would it be a cheaper fine to appear in person? Consider several hundred quid in flights and expenses?

Do they accept foreign statement of earnings? If so it could be quite expensive bill based on my Swiss salary (again not that it matters!) The calculator is stating 1.1k

Should I provide a foreign statement of earnings or let them guess? (Would this be the maximum fine?)

Many thanks

Keep trucking icon_hang.gif




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post Wed, 17 Jun 2015 - 07:38
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The Rookie
post Wed, 17 Jun 2015 - 08:11
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He will probably have measured the speed using a time and distance device such as VASCAR or Puma actually, and it's very accurate.

Pleading not guilty is not appealing, you appeal after a decision has gone against you, not before.

They may well ban you in the UK, but as you are in Switzerland it will be worth including a letter explaining you are not in the UK and that therefor they can ban you in your absence without you breaching that ban by not knowing the verdict.

If you supply no statement of earnings they use a nominal level (currently £440 a week I believe), if you use Swiss earnings 9and why not) explain that your outgoings are extra-ordinary as they are also at a Swiss level, that said any fine for that speed will be around the £450-500 mark even on the nominal level. (costs on top).


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Logician
post Wed, 17 Jun 2015 - 08:24
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They have 6 months to issue a summons and often seem to take most of that time, so you are still likely to receive one. You can reply pleading guilty and, as the Rookie says, saying that if they disqualify you, you are content for that to be in your absence as you will not be in the UK. Possibly a more likely outcome is 6 penalty points, which will be recorded by the DVLA on a driving record created for you but will have no other effect, unless you get 6 more in a 3 year period when you could be disqualified from driving in the UK for 6 months.


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Cata1yst
post Wed, 17 Jun 2015 - 08:29
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 17 Jun 2015 - 10:11) *
He will probably have measured the speed using a time and distance device such as VASCAR or Puma actually, and it's very accurate.

Pleading not guilty is not appealing, you appeal after a decision has gone against you, not before.

They may well ban you in the UK, but as you are in Switzerland it will be worth including a letter explaining you are not in the UK and that therefore they can ban you in your absence without you breaching that ban by not knowing the verdict.

If you supply no statement of earnings they use a nominal level (currently £440 a week I believe), if you use Swiss earnings 9and why not) explain that your outgoings are extra-ordinary as they are also at a Swiss level, that said any fine for that speed will be around the £450-500 mark even on the nominal level. (costs on top).


Useful information thank you. It was a joke about the technicalities of the measuring equipment. I know how it works. I'm in the lucky position I can laugh about this without to much of an effect on my life. Many others in the UK have bigger issues such as getting to work after a ban etc.

Pleading/appealing as in the sense of "not guilty" plead. I understand the difference law wise. I used to work for the Forensic Science Service, I spent most of the conversation with PC plod discussing this rather than the speeding offence. wink.gif

This is good that I can issue a statement, a visit in person could be difficult.

Nominal level works for me 500 + costs is okay 2,000 maybe based on Swiss earnings not so (learned my lesson here!)

So how long can I expect to wait for this? Is Kent slow or?
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Unzippy
post Wed, 17 Jun 2015 - 08:32
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How does your parents address fit into this?
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Pete D
post Wed, 17 Jun 2015 - 08:53
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"parents home address in Cornwall or 500 quid" did he really say that and ask for money. Pete D
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emsgeorge
post Wed, 17 Jun 2015 - 09:01
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Bet he was offered to provide a UK address or was threatened with a graduated FPN, designed for foreign lorry drivers, where they have to pay a roadside deposit.

Designed to stop our foreign friends kindly taking a normal fpn, then using it as toilet tissue.
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Cata1yst
post Wed, 17 Jun 2015 - 10:17
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QUOTE (Logician @ Wed, 17 Jun 2015 - 10:24) *
They have 6 months to issue a summons and often seem to take most of that time, so you are still likely to receive one. You can reply pleading guilty and, as the Rookie says, saying that if they disqualify you, you are content for that to be in your absence as you will not be in the UK. Possibly a more likely outcome is 6 penalty points, which will be recorded by the DVLA on a driving record created for you but will have no other effect, unless you get 6 more in a 3 year period when you could be disqualified from driving in the UK for 6 months.


I should add the policeman recognised based on the Swiss License that it was converted from a UK one due to the number, so I already have a "ghost"

A straight ban would be better to be honest IF I ever returned to the UK then any Swiss to UK license exchange would be clean. Points I assume would remain if I converted it back. (Highly unlikely I will come back though for now, but things can change!)

I should add this is a first offence so perhaps this leads more towards points (not that it matters!)

Yes he did say 500 quid or a UK address. Based on foreigners as someone explained! If I wouldn't give him an address he would clamp the car until I produced the 500. He said under 96 it would be 100 in cash.

He wasn't threatening more a conversation and to be honest 500 quid was probably less hassle. I didn't feel threatened by him, perhaps I should have taken that option.

More useful information thank you.

QUOTE (emsgeorge @ Wed, 17 Jun 2015 - 11:01) *
Bet he was offered to provide a UK address or was threatened with a graduated FPN, designed for foreign lorry drivers, where they have to pay a roadside deposit.

Designed to stop our foreign friends kindly taking a normal fpn, then using it as toilet tissue.


Yes exactly...!

QUOTE (emsgeorge @ Wed, 17 Jun 2015 - 11:01) *
Bet he was offered to provide a UK address or was threatened with a graduated FPN, designed for foreign lorry drivers, where they have to pay a roadside deposit.

Designed to stop our foreign friends kindly taking a normal fpn, then using it as toilet tissue.


Amusingly he wrote the address down as Conwy, perhaps I shouldn't have corrected him wink.gif
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Logician
post Wed, 17 Jun 2015 - 10:31
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You have little influence over what the court decide, but if you say they can ban you in your absence you are perhaps inclining them to think of that. Points would remain for three years and you have five years to exchange a Swiss licence for a UK one, so you could let them expire first, although it makes little difference whether the points are on a 'ghost' licence or a new UK one.

Perhaps the officer wrote Conwy because he was Welsh!


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roythebus
post Thu, 18 Jun 2015 - 08:41
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Why bother changing from a Swiss licence to a UK licence if you live here? I may be wrong, but EU and Swiss licences are valid for people living here until the age of 75.

The UK authorities don't like you doing that as they can't usually get the revenue from you but it's quite legal.

Personally I'd ignore any court papers unless they are sent to my home address in Switzerland, even then there's little they can do about it if you are in Switzerland.
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Logician
post Thu, 18 Jun 2015 - 09:44
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QUOTE (roythebus @ Thu, 18 Jun 2015 - 09:41) *
Why bother changing from a Swiss licence to a UK licence if you live here? I may be wrong, but EU and Swiss licences are valid for people living here until the age of 75.


You are wrong, you can drive in the UK on an EU licence until the age of 70, not 75, and as I said in the post before, you can drive on a Swiss licence for 5 years only.



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The Rookie
post Thu, 18 Jun 2015 - 09:54
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Besides he is living in Switzerland and has converted a UK licence to Swiss because of that, so not sure why RtB asks that question?


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
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PPC PCN's
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Cata1yst
post Mon, 22 Jun 2015 - 12:15
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QUOTE (roythebus @ Thu, 18 Jun 2015 - 10:41) *
Why bother changing from a Swiss licence to a UK licence if you live here? I may be wrong, but EU and Swiss licences are valid for people living here until the age of 75.

The UK authorities don't like you doing that as they can't usually get the revenue from you but it's quite legal.

Personally I'd ignore any court papers unless they are sent to my home address in Switzerland, even then there's little they can do about it if you are in Switzerland.


Until next time I enter the UK and the sirens start blaring. They check all entrances and exits at the port now. More big brother stuff.
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4x4x4
post Wed, 24 Jun 2015 - 20:49
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QUOTE (Cata1yst @ Mon, 22 Jun 2015 - 13:15) *
They check all entrances and exits at the port now. More big brother stuff.
Got any evidence of that ?
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 24 Jun 2015 - 20:53
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QUOTE (4x4x4 @ Wed, 24 Jun 2015 - 21:49) *
QUOTE (Cata1yst @ Mon, 22 Jun 2015 - 13:15) *
They check all entrances and exits at the port now. More big brother stuff.
Got any evidence of that ?


On the ferries and the tunnel there are passport checks both by the operator and uk boarder control


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southpaw82
post Wed, 24 Jun 2015 - 22:32
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And?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 25 Jun 2015 - 08:19
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 24 Jun 2015 - 23:32) *
And?


And, evidence of checks was asked for. I gave personal testimony. If that is not enough then see link

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...ecks-fact-sheet


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Unzippy
post Thu, 25 Jun 2015 - 08:24
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I think Southpaw is helpfully referring to the fact that DVLA are not checking driving license at ports. But not is no many words.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 25 Jun 2015 - 09:09
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It was relating to whether his heinous crime would come to light, no-one has yet produced any evidence that a check would be made for that, the fact they check passports is about as relevant as the fact the day end in a Y in respect of that, and that is what I suspect SP was questioning.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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southpaw82
post Thu, 25 Jun 2015 - 11:54
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Sorry, quite so. I'm not aware of wants and warrants being run at points of entry.


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