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[NIP Wizard] Charge Sheet Recieved No Prior Correspondence
atlantic
post Sat, 26 Aug 2017 - 09:21
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2017
Date of the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A184 Felling Bypass Burlison Gateshead United Kingdom
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - The information above has been taken from the SINGLE JUSTICE PROCEDURE NOTICE DATED 18/08/17

I was out of the country on 07/03/17 The NIP allegedly was sent on the 08/03/17 and also a final request for information was allegedly sent on the 13/04/2017 I never arrived back to UK till 20/04/17 I have had no mail or information of this untill 23/08/17 when I came back from another trip abroad.

I have a SINGLE JUSTICE PROCEDURE NOTICE with Charges of driving offences:

RR84223 - EXCEED SPEED LIMIT IMPOSED BY LOCAL ORDER CAMERA

RT88567 - FAIL TO GIVE INFO RE . DRIVERS IDENTITY SEC 172 (3) RTA 88

The actual charge sheet:

1. RR84223 states: ON 07 APRIL 2017 AT NORTH TYNESIDE (wrong date and it is SOUTH TYNESIDE)

2. RT88567 ON 07 APRIL 2017 AT POLICE HEADQUARTERS NORTH TYNESIDEfAIL TO GIVE INFO RE DRIVERS IDENTITY.

THE CHARGE DATE FOR BOTH OF THESE ALLEGED OFFENCES IS 17/08/2017


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 09:21:26 +0000
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post Sat, 26 Aug 2017 - 09:21
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Jlc
post Sat, 26 Aug 2017 - 11:43
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Did you move or change car around the time of the alleged offence?

Is your v5 correct?

It would seem strange 2 pieces of mail were not delivered.

The 'errors' in the charge sheet do not assist you as a defence. The matter cannot be dealt with by SJP unless you want to plead guilty to both offences - and get at least 9 points.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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atlantic
post Sat, 26 Aug 2017 - 12:58
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I was abroad 6 weeks during the dates described.

All the V5 etc is in order.

When I got back there was no paperwork in mail, I had six weeks worth of mail to sort through I do not think I have missed it. There is nobody in my home when I am away.

The paperwork has gave me 21 days to plead guilty or not guilty to each charge and I am at a loss what to do or how to approach this.

I have sighted no prior warning or paperwork if so I could have actioned on it.

The police report is differing in dates to the actual Charge Sheet that is used in court for the speeding offence surely this cannot be legally correct?

The charge of failing to give info of identity relates to mail apparently delivered when I was not present in the country.

I have a lot of paperwork relating to this and would ask if any advice can be given.

Is it worth uploading the documents to view (with details blocked out names numbers etc) to assist me in this dilemma.

I do not want to plead guilty or receive any points, I wish to question the facts mentioned.





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AntonyMMM
post Sat, 26 Aug 2017 - 13:21
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You are charged with two offences:

Speeding - which can't be proved with no evidence of who was driving ( because you haven't told them)

Failing to nominate the driver - this is far more serious. As the registered keeper (I assume ?) you are under an obligation to name the driver when required to do so, UNLESS you can show why with reasonable diligence it was impossible for you to identify them.

Your defence would be that you did not receive the requirement, so couldn't possibly name the driver. But - the prosecution will prove that the requirements were posted, and therefore presumed delivered to you two business days later - you have to rebut that presumption. Courts are very sceptical about people who have important letters fail to arrive (at least twice) but then mysteriously the summons, or SJPN notice, is delivered with no problem. People do occasionally succeed with such an argument, but most don't. The penalty for losing is far higher than the speeding charge will attract.

For that reason, IF you were the driver, the usual advice is to attend court and speak to the prosecutor and do a deal to plead guilty to the speeding if they don't proceed with the more serious charge. This is a common approach that is accepted in courts every day.

The date is a typo/mistake that the court will allow to be amended.

At this stage your action will be to decline the SJPN procedure and ask for the case to be heard in court ( as a NG trial).

This post has been edited by AntonyMMM: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 - 13:24
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atlantic
post Mon, 9 Oct 2017 - 02:23
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UPDATE:

I plead not guilty online 05/09/2017

Summons on referral to Court

A magistrate has decided that your case should be referred to a full court hearing

On 18 Oct 2017 at ***************

REASON
For a case management hearing (Deft to attend)

I shall be attending

What advice now?
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The Rookie
post Mon, 9 Oct 2017 - 03:50
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From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



When you attend ask an usher if a CPS prosecutor is there, you explain to the prosecutor what you have told us, that you didn't get the first notice, you then offer to plead guilty to the speeding (for which they have no evidence you were driving so can't progress it otherwise) if they agree to drop the failure to furnish, we have never heard of a prosecutor not accepting this, and that is what you then do in court. This is a very common and utterly normal course of events.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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atlantic
post Wed, 18 Oct 2017 - 12:47
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Just back in from Court i got to see the prosecutor after a 3 hr wait and explianed the circumstances and as the charge sheet said the date of offence was When was out of the country I had to show passport evidence and the flight details which i had, they then struck my case out! NFA!

Thanks for helping me.😁
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Jlc
post Wed, 18 Oct 2017 - 12:54
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Result!


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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