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[NIP Wizard] Speeding ticket without adequate speed signage
Jadoo
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 15:59
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2019
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Dorchester Road
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - The car entered small town and the driver obeyed speed signage that said 30mph. There was no further signage and coming out of town, heading towards roundabout, the road turned into a country lane with houses set away from the road and separated by a long hedge. The driver looked out for speed signs when someone behind them came up fast and the driver sped up as they approached the roundabout thinking this must be a country lane with a higher speed limit. The mobile police speed van was at top of the hill just before the roundabout.

We've looked back at the signage on Google maps and notice there are none going towards the roundabout.

The driver has had no speeding tickets in 20 years of driving and has respected the speed limits. On this occasion it feels that that rather than creating an environment of safe driving by posting sufficient signage police are out to make money.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Unknown
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 06 Sep 2019 15:59:13 +0000

This post has been edited by Jadoo: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 21:30
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post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 15:59
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Jlc
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:09
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QUOTE (Jadoo @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:59) *
The driver looked out for speed signs

Were there streetlights?

Is it this road?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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666
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:12
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There is no need for signs, as the limit has not changed. There is street lighting, which indicates a 30 mph limit - as the driver should know.

And BTW the police are not responsible for signs.
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Jadoo
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:14
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 17:09) *
QUOTE (Jadoo @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:59) *
The driver looked out for speed signs

Were there streetlights?

Is it this road?



Yes, that's road. There are street lights are on the road.


This post has been edited by Jadoo: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:15
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Jlc
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:20
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QUOTE (Jadoo @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 17:14) *
There are street lights are on the road.

Assuming the are spaced correctly (no more than 200 yards apart) then it is a restricted road of 30mph unless there are signs to the contrary.

What's the alleged speed?

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:20


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Logician
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:24
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The driver with 20 years experience should be aware of Rule 124 of the Highway Code:

The presence of street lights generally means that there is a 30 mph (48 km/h) speed limit unless otherwise specified.


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Jadoo
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:26
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QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 17:12) *
There is no need for signs, as the limit has not changed. There is street lighting, which indicates a 30 mph limit - as the driver should know.


That may be the case. If we want a safer driving environment then let's get away from this kind of thinking and help drivers to keep to the speed limit by reminding them. How much does it cost to put up a 30mph speed sign on a long road?

QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 17:12) *
And BTW the police are not responsible for signs.


I agree. However, they're certainly looking to profit from it with so many tourists passing through including overseas visitors. You expect them all to know about the street lights? Maybe persuade the local authority to put a sign?
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Fredd
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:36
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QUOTE (Jadoo @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 17:26) *
QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 17:12) *
There is no need for signs, as the limit has not changed. There is street lighting, which indicates a 30 mph limit - as the driver should know.


That may be the case. If we want a safer driving environment then let's get away from this kind of thinking and help drivers to keep to the speed limit by reminding them. How much does it cost to put up a 30mph speed sign on a long road?

QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 17:12) *
And BTW the police are not responsible for signs.


I agree. However, they're certainly looking to profit from it with so many tourists passing through including overseas visitors. You expect them all to know about the street lights? Maybe persuade the local authority to put a sign?

If you want to argue that the law regarding speed limit signage is crap then you need to be talking to your MP (or forlornly via change.org, nowadays).

If you want practical advice about your current situation then you'd be well advised to listen to what you're being told here.


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NewJudge
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:37
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QUOTE (Jadoo @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 17:26) *
That may be the case. If we want a safer driving environment then let's get away from this kind of thinking and help drivers to keep to the speed limit by reminding them. How much does it cost to put up a 30mph speed sign on a long road?

It isn't a matter of cost. I believe it is actually illegal to put up '30' repeater signs on a restricted road.

The lamp posts act as repeaters and they appear at least every 200 yards. Everybody who has passed their driving test in the UK should know that. Foreign drivers will have to do what UK drivers do when driving abroad - learn the law applicable to the country in which they are driving or pay they penalty if the transgress.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 17:28
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BaggieBoy
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:49
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And the police don't profit from this, they get no share of the revenue from fixed penalties and court fines.

If the drivers offered a speed awareness course it sounds like it would be monet well spent as they clearly are not aware of how limits are signed.
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Redivi
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 17:11
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It isn't a matter of cost. I believe it is actually illegal to put up '30' repeater signs on a restricted road.

That's also my understanding
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southpaw82
post Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 17:37
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QUOTE (Jadoo @ Fri, 6 Sep 2019 - 16:59) *
the driver obeyed speed signage that said 30mph.

Were you driving? - Unknown

rolleyes.gif


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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