Money Claim Online UKCPS, Threads merged Options

[Mr_Mark]

Good evening I received a claim from the courts from UKPCS and having read the forums I may well have submitted a really poor defence
I parked on a carpark that is managed by UKPCS but my mate owns a business that uses this carpark for his staff
I was unaware that it was controlled by them and had previously asked my mate who was the company director if I could park there when going to the footy and he had said yes its fine park whenever you like (via facebook messenger which I still have)
I parked as he said I could and obviously got a ticket which I appealed on the above grounds which was rejected so I appealed to the next stage which was rejected again
I got a fresh claim for £100 and a warning attached that a further £60 would be added if they decided to take me to court which I ignored
I received the money claim which ive acknowledged but I have carried on and filled out the defence bit which in hind site having read a lot of threads I should have held back on
the basics of my defence were that firstly I questioned the charges (pointless I think) but I have said I had permission and also that the signage is crap unreadable and as it was at night impossible to see in the dark, but looking at the defences ive seen this is pretty scant on caselaw or any legal justification

Is there any way I can change my defence to beef it up or am I stuck with what I have committed myself too?
Any advice would be appreciated

Thanks

update this is my defence I posted I have just been online and copied it obviously ive edited out the names and having read it im a bit disappointed that I didn't do better but I hope it cover all the basses
the person who brought the claim isn't UKPCS or any of the directors so I took the liberty of questioning who they are also

I have a few concerns about this claim firstly I have no idea who
the claimant I Lee is and wonder if they have the right of
audience to this court?
Secondly I feel this is an unfair contract as the amount of £100
claimed is disproportionate to the loss they could have incurred
and is contractually unfair and I believe this is in fact a fine
as the maximum loss although in fact the carpark was empty would
have been less than £15.
Thirdly and the main part of my defence was that I had permission
given to me by the person who uses this car park for his business
Mike *** of **** who told me I could park there any
time I wished, because this permission was given I would not have
been looking for any signs and also as it was at night and none of
the signs in the area I parked have illumination I would not have
been able to see them anyway
I have a screenshot of the conversation although dated a few
months before, and also a screenshot of the company web site to
show that Mike is the director
I also have photographs of the signs showing the lack of
illumination and the approximate distance they were
away from my car.
I did appeal when the ticket arrived through the post but this was
rejected so I have not ignored this fine but have all along felt
that it was not justified or valid as I had permission.


This post has been edited by Mr_Mark: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 18:58

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[southpaw82]

Doesn’t sound like a particularly bad defence to me (depending on how much detail went into it). A lot (i.e. almost all) of the defences you’ll find on the internet are ridiculously overblown and lengthy affairs that bear little resemblance to a proper defence.

No doubt you’ll get people screaming at you to edit your post so you don’t identify the driver. Another pointless affectation of the forums, particularly as you’ve presumably “outed” yourself in your defence?

[Jlc]

It will likely incur a fee to change your defence - use your Witness Statement to recover matters a little (But shouldn't contain legal arguments)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 - 21:06

[ostell]

Does your friend rent the car park, ie is he the landholders? Or what other reason does he gave the right to use it

[Mr_Mark]

Doesn’t sound like a particularly bad defence to me (depending on how much detail went into it). A lot (i.e. almost all) of the defences you’ll find on the internet are ridiculously overblown and lengthy affairs that bear little resemblance to a proper defence.

No doubt you’ll get people screaming at you to edit your post so you don’t identify the driver. Another pointless affectation of the forums, particularly as you’ve presumably “outed” yourself in your defence?

I outed myself when I appealed so yep im it
Thanks for taking the time to reply

Does your friend rent the car park, ie is he the landholders? Or what other reason does he gave the right to use it

To be honest im not really sure but when I got the ticket I asked him if his staff put permits in the cars he said that they just stick a business card in the window
unfortunately I cant get a picture of this as hes moved out now and I am also struggling to get hold of him

It will likely incur a fee to change your defence - use your Witness Statement to recover matters a little (But shouldn't contain legal arguments)

I did email asking how to upload my defence photos so I could add a written statement as a doc when I reply
I am going to go to the carpark and take a photo in the dark because it was at night and none of the signs are illuminated and are quite small and although the signs on the main entrance are
larger I quite naturally ignored them because there are a few companies with parking areas and I presumed as I had permission it didn't count for me

[Redivi]

You don't send a witness statement and evidence until the court orders you

They're not wanted until two weeks before any hearing
This is months away

[Mr_Mark]

You don't send a witness statement and evidence until the court orders you

They're not wanted until two weeks before any hearing
This is months away

OK thanks for that I'll wait and see if they proceed or drop the case
My thoughts are they will carry on but maybe they were trying to scare me
Into settling the case but I've come to far and refuse to back down I'd rather
pay up at the end if I lose

[Jlc]

They won't discontinue easily.

[Lynnzer]

Need a copy of the Claim Form - obliterate your personal details but leave everything else on it.
This could be mighty important if you mean UKCPS rather than UKPCS

[Mr_Mark]

They won't discontinue easily.

Probably not but I'm going all the way now as I save nothing by just coughing up :-)

[Lynnzer]

They won't discontinue easily.

Probably not but I'm going all the way now as I save nothing by just coughing up :-)

YOU NEED TO COPY ME THE CLAIM FORM.
I have one myself and there are some very interesting things that will be useful in court.

If you can't copy it, does the signature say something like "rwalker", ie not a full name, and with no position in the company shown?
See my topic for details

[Mr_Mark]

They won't discontinue easily.

Probably not but I'm going all the way now as I save nothing by just coughing up :-)

YOU NEED TO COPY ME THE CLAIM FORM.
I have one myself and there are some very interesting things that will be useful in court.

If you can't copy it, does the signature say something like "rwalker", ie not a full name, and with no position in the company shown?
See my topic for details

Hi I have attached a pic of the bit that's about the claim and yes its signed by someone who isn't on companies house as a director and has no job description
it is UKCPS LTD of Leeds

[Lynnzer]

They won't discontinue easily.

Probably not but I'm going all the way now as I save nothing by just coughing up :-)

YOU NEED TO COPY ME THE CLAIM FORM.
I have one myself and there are some very interesting things that will be useful in court.

If you can't copy it, does the signature say something like "rwalker", ie not a full name, and with no position in the company shown?
See my topic for details

Hi I have attached a pic of the bit that's about the claim and yes its signed by someone who isn't on companies house as a director and has no job description
it is UKCPS LTD of Leeds

So it could be the janitor then.
There's a failure to CPR's in not providing the FULL name and their position in the company.
Of course this isn't a defence point as such BUT something you must open with in court by way of making a request for the judges ruling out that the claim form is without merit. Point to the relevant CPR that requires a full name and position in the company, and I would serve advance notification that you require the signatory to be in court to explain why the claim hasn't been validated in accordance with CPR's.

In my case of course it runs deeper. The details of claim are exactly the same as on yours even though PoFA was not invoked on the PCN so the signatory is signing an untruthful statement of claim with potential criminal consequences.

[Mr_Mark]

They won't discontinue easily.

Probably not but I'm going all the way now as I save nothing by just coughing up :-)

YOU NEED TO COPY ME THE CLAIM FORM.
I have one myself and there are some very interesting things that will be useful in court.

If you can't copy it, does the signature say something like "rwalker", ie not a full name, and with no position in the company shown?
See my topic for details

Hi I have attached a pic of the bit that's about the claim and yes its signed by someone who isn't on companies house as a director and has no job description
it is UKCPS LTD of Leeds

So it could be the janitor then.
There's a failure to CPR's in not providing the FULL name and their position in the company.
Of course this isn't a defence point as such BUT something you must open with in court by way of making a request for the judges ruling out that the claim form is without merit. Point to the relevant CPR that requires a full name and position in the company, and I would serve advance notification that you require the signatory to be in court to explain why the claim hasn't been validated in accordance with CPR's.

In my case of course it runs deeper. The details of claim are exactly the same as on yours even though PoFA was not invoked on the PCN so the signatory is signing an untruthful statement of claim with potential criminal consequences.

I opened my online defence statement questioning who they were and if they had a right of audience (I edited my post and added a copy of my defence statement)
as you say it could be anyone
having read you thread its a shame I didn't take advantage of this site and the great advice you get before I started but you live and learn

[Lynnzer]

They won't discontinue easily.

Probably not but I'm going all the way now as I save nothing by just coughing up :-)

YOU NEED TO COPY ME THE CLAIM FORM.
I have one myself and there are some very interesting things that will be useful in court.

If you can't copy it, does the signature say something like "rwalker", ie not a full name, and with no position in the company shown?
See my topic for details

Hi I have attached a pic of the bit that's about the claim and yes its signed by someone who isn't on companies house as a director and has no job description
it is UKCPS LTD of Leeds

So it could be the janitor then.
There's a failure to CPR's in not providing the FULL name and their position in the company.
Of course this isn't a defence point as such BUT something you must open with in court by way of making a request for the judges ruling out that the claim form is without merit. Point to the relevant CPR that requires a full name and position in the company, and I would serve advance notification that you require the signatory to be in court to explain why the claim hasn't been validated in accordance with CPR's.

In my case of course it runs deeper. The details of claim are exactly the same as on yours even though PoFA was not invoked on the PCN so the signatory is signing an untruthful statement of claim with potential criminal consequences.

I opened my online defence statement questioning who they were and if they had a right of audience (I edited my post and added a copy of my defence statement)
as you say it could be anyone
having read you thread its a shame I didn't take advantage of this site and the great advice you get before I started but you live and learn

Right of audience doesn't come into it. This would only apply if the unverified signatory was to turn up to handle the case, which is unlikely.
I know that the cases are usually handled by the director himself but that doesn't mean that the claim form is compliant to CPR's though.
There's still a right to ask the judge to apply sanctions and have it dismissed at the start of proceedings.
Let's look at this a slightly different way.
If the signatory had put their full name on the claom form, even if they didn't say what their position was in the company, you couldn't refute their identity.
However the I Lee could be the claimed electronic signature of Ian Lee whose wife Isobel Lee turns up in court. Unlikely I know but it doesn't have certainty to it, and that's why compliance to CPR's is important.
See this, https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads...nt-of-Truth.pdf

This post has been edited by Lynnzer: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 - 15:42

[southpaw82]

You would be asking the court to strike out the claim under CPR 3.4(2)(c), which says:

The court may strike out a statement of case if it appears to the court –

© that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order.

I rate your chances of that happening as being slim - it would take a very robust judge to do so. It is more likely that they will be allowed to simply correct it or have some lesser sanction applied, such as costs. You might also be required to pay an application fee for your application to strike out - unless the court accepts that you're simply inviting it to exercise its powers of its own volition.

[Mr_Mark]

You would be asking the court to strike out the claim under CPR 3.4(2)(c), which says:

The court may strike out a statement of case if it appears to the court –

© that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order.

I rate your chances of that happening as being slim - it would take a very robust judge to do so. It is more likely that they will be allowed to simply correct it or have some lesser sanction applied, such as costs. You might also be required to pay an application fee for your application to strike out - unless the court accepts that you're simply inviting it to exercise its powers of its own volition.

I have now received a letter from Northampton it's a proposal to allocate to the small claims track do I fill it in pick my local court and refuse mediation? I presume that any effort to strike out will have to wait until it's due to go to court and I send my statement

[southpaw82]

You need to fill in the allocation questionnaire and picking a court local to you seems sensible. I doubt the online centre would entertain an application for strike out - they would probably transfer it to a hearing centre. I’m not suggesting you make an application to strike out, by the way - as said, I think the prospects of success are slim.

[Mr_Mark]

You need to fill in the allocation questionnaire and picking a court local to you seems sensible. I doubt the online centre would entertain an application for strike out - they would probably transfer it to a hearing centre. I’m not suggesting you make an application to strike out, by the way - as said, I think the prospects of success are slim.

OK thanks I'll fill it in
To be honest I believe my defence is quite reasonable as I had permission to park there any time I wanted plus it was close to 9pm on a winters evening so no of the signs were visible
Luck of the draw on the day I suppose
Thanks I'll update when things progress

[Mr_Mark]

You need to fill in the allocation questionnaire and picking a court local to you seems sensible. I doubt the online centre would entertain an application for strike out - they would probably transfer it to a hearing centre. I’m not suggesting you make an application to strike out, by the way - as said, I think the prospects of success are slim.

OK thanks I'll fill it in
To be honest I believe my defence is quite reasonable as I had permission to park there any time I wanted plus it was close to 9pm on a winters evening so no of the signs were visible
Luck of the draw on the day I suppose
Thanks I'll update when things progress

bit of an update they now know I'm defending the claim and have sent a reduced offer for me to settle but it's 120 so I'll pass